[00:10:53] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[00:10:53] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[00:17:54] --> Darke has joined #exult
[00:18:04] * Darke bows.
[00:44:28] <-- EazyCheez has left IRC ("computer rebooting - oWiRC")
[01:28:25] --> SB-X has joined #exult
[01:28:45] <SB-X> ?date
[01:28:45] <exultbot> It is now Sun Dec 2 01:28:45 2001 (GMT).
[01:29:01] <SB-X> Darke: are you supposed to be awake still?
[01:29:14] <SB-X> or yet
[01:29:59] <Darke> SB-X: Hi. <bow> It's currently 11:30am here. <grin> I normally awaken around 1pm, so yes I'm up 'early'. I normally don't join #exult 'til about 7pm or so my time though.
[01:32:16] <SB-X> did some usecode nightmare awaken you early?
[01:33:21] <Darke> Nah, it's Sunday here, <grin> Church. I got about... 1 or 2 hours sleep last night. So I figure staring at some usecode would wake me up.
[01:34:31] * Darke is actually doing more dancing to music (this character's 'soundtrack') then staring at usecode... but anyway. <grin>
[01:36:07] <SB-X> you have a soundtrack for youself?
[01:36:31] <SB-X> intriguing
[01:39:59] * SB-X tries the James Bond villian test.
[01:40:07] <SB-X> villain
[01:46:05] * SB-X is Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
[01:46:24] * SB-X enjoys fluffy white cats, dropping people in piranha pools, and initiating World War III.
[01:46:49] * SB-X is played by Donald Pleasence in You Only Live Twice.
[01:47:09] * Darke 's writer has a soundtrack for Darke yes. <grin> It helps to get into the mental framework somedays. Otherdays it's just fun to listen to.
[01:48:13] <Darke> I've noticed it's lacking under 'New technology' an entry relating to 'play with', and under the animals list 'rabbits'. <grin> But other then that, it's not too bad.
[01:51:42] * SB-X can't imagine any use for rabbits except in stew.
[01:51:45] <SB-X> oops
[01:51:46] <SB-X> i mean..
[01:51:55] <SB-X> a james bond villain might think that ;-)
[01:52:20] * Darke innocentwiggles and sharpens his claws.
[01:53:54] <SB-X> the url you posted later was indeed NOT random
[01:54:05] <SB-X> it came from the same site :-)
[01:54:21] * Darke grins.
[01:54:39] <SB-X> but it is funny:
[01:54:46] <SB-X> * There's stuff on it.
[01:54:52] <SB-X> ** I update it sometimes.
[01:55:31] <Darke> I still have it open, and I've _experienced_ some of the things he's mentioned. <grin> Some people are just dumb.
[01:57:30] <SB-X> haha
[01:57:32] <SB-X> The kids are his opus.
[01:57:46] <SB-X> One robot survives to garden in peace.
[01:58:18] <SB-X> that is funny because they make no sense in this context
[02:09:44] <SB-X> Words that Rhyme with Captain Picard
[02:10:00] * Darke looks at you strangely.
[02:10:10] <SB-X> OK I'm done with that site :-)
[02:10:30] <SB-X> postcard
[02:10:33] <Darke> No, no. Please continue, you're making me look normal in comparison. <grin>
[02:10:35] <SB-X> ok now i'm done
[02:10:40] <SB-X> :P
[02:11:25] * Darke looks innocent and dancebounces.
[02:17:43] * Darke wonders if it's a good sign that he finds himself singing, "Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say..." to music whilst he's programming.
[02:21:33] <SB-X> Darke, tinker, tenor, tailor, opcode pusher
[02:25:39] <SB-X> haha "Ctrl-D" Iolo and another runs up to you
[02:30:45] <SB-X> well i have to depart for a few
[02:30:56] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say...")
[02:32:28] * Darke considers it scans perfectly into the instrumental bits of "The Bad Touch".
[02:42:19] * matto returns with a dramatic flair of his cloak
[02:43:12] <Darke> Hmm... "You and me callis ain't nothing but opcodes, so let's do it like they do in Frigidazzi's usecode." I think I need more sleep. <grin>
[02:43:35] * Darke wonders why matto has a dramatic cloak.
[03:08:20] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[04:08:32] --> matto has joined #exult
[04:12:26] <Darke> Hello again. <grin>
[04:50:04] --> magos- has joined #exult
[04:50:05] <magos-> grrr
[04:50:07] <magos-> anyone here?
[04:53:37] <-- magos- has left IRC (Client Quit)
[05:41:56] <matto> magos-: yep
[05:42:09] <Darke> Only occasionaly.
[05:42:36] * Darke had his head stuck in code when magos arrived, if he'd waited for another two minutes... <grin>
[05:42:49] <matto> hehe
[05:42:52] <matto> yep.. those impatient people
[05:43:42] <Darke> Considering when I 'first' stated haunting this channel, the mean time for a reply to a 'hi' was around half an hour...
[05:46:32] <matto> hehe
[05:56:55] * Darke pokes 'call' and misses. 'call' pokes back doing 200 points of damage.
[07:06:47] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[07:22:38] --> sbx has joined #exult
[07:23:35] <sbx> hi
[07:33:09] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[07:33:13] <Darke> Hello. <bow>
[07:33:21] <matto> Darkefluff!
[07:33:33] <matto> sbx!
[07:34:36] <sbx> hi
[07:34:41] <sbx> matto!
[07:35:03] <sbx> did you know there is a BASIC interpreter for the PalmOS?
[07:35:17] <sbx> (useless trivia)
[07:36:27] <Darke> sbx: That's vaguely twisted. I like that. <grin>
[07:38:10] <sbx> can you peek or poke into non-stack memory in usecode?
[07:42:12] <sbx> or is there just push and pop
[07:42:30] <Darke> AFAICT, no. Just the various pushes and pops.
[07:42:47] <sbx> :-(
[07:42:57] <sbx> peek lord_britishes_pocket
[07:43:57] * Darke grins.
[07:44:54] <sbx> how long do you think it will be until ucxt & ucc are usable together?
[07:45:39] * sbx wants to start editing.
[07:46:45] <Darke> Umm... when Jeff finished hacking at ucc and I 'finish' hacking at ucxt? <grin> For very basic values of editing, ucxt should be ready 'soon', provided $life distracts me.
[07:47:00] <Darke> erk _doesn't_ distract me.
[08:05:14] <sbx> i see... but is ucxt useful without ucc?
[08:05:56] <sbx> push $life
[08:06:11] <sbx> push $extremely_long_string_so_life_is_at_the_bottom
[08:06:38] <sbx> if(all else fails)
[08:06:42] <sbx> ret
[08:07:02] <sbx> ignore the above as it made no sense
[08:10:22] <Darke> ucxt is useful without ucc, well to me anyway. <grin> Just from the perspective that I find it easier to read nicely formatted semi-c code rather then assembler.
[08:16:04] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[08:16:26] <Wumpus> anyone around? :)
[08:16:35] * Wumpus has a infinite loop just sitting here :)
[08:16:43] * Darke pawwaves. "I am... or at least I think I am."
[08:16:46] <Wumpus> (optimised code evil to debug ist)
[08:16:55] <matto> wumpus!
[08:17:00] <Wumpus> `lolo :)
[08:17:02] * sbx is here trying to think of a way ucxt will be useful to him without ucc.
[08:17:31] * Wumpus hasnt' so far been able to get uctxt to do anything apparently useful, but then, I didn't really read the instctions properly either :)
[08:17:34] * Darke is trying to think of ways to make ucxt useful. <grin>
[08:18:04] <Wumpus> that infite loop you found for the cyclops... that was in a conversation?
[08:18:16] <sbx> once ucxt and ucc or some other tools work i want to port U6 to Exult(or maybe someone else will do it)
[08:18:30] <sbx> wasnt the cyclops on ambrosia?
[08:18:48] <Wumpus> well whatever the infite loop bug yesterday was ;-p
[08:19:02] <sbx> i mean the person who posted the bug said it was dagger isle
[08:19:19] <Darke> 'ucxt -fa 96' will dump the assembler output of the function 0x96 to the console. Add a '-ac' if you want some comments with your assembler. Use '-fs' rather then '-fa' if you want the broken script output. Or use '-fz' rather then '-fa' if you want the 'new' script output.
[08:20:12] <Wumpus> oh :)
[08:20:42] <sbx> Darke has nice long sentences
[08:20:50] * Wumpus appears to have an infiite loop in timeq.cc - Time_queue::activate0 - on just flying over some apparently random landscape (woods)
[08:21:05] <Wumpus> I say "appears to" because optimisations are getting to me :|
[08:21:43] <sbx> are you running exult in gdb or something?
[08:21:57] <Wumpus> I attached to it with gdb after it went into the loop, yeah
[08:22:45] <sbx> does the screen just freeze?
[08:23:21] <Wumpus> I think that's what *would* have happened if i'd done it normally... as itwas, the screen just went black as a result of the loop on its own, so attaching the debugger made it neither more nor less black ;-p
[08:24:40] <sbx> an interesting thing to do is Ctrl-D on Iolo
[08:27:41] <sbx> or duplicate the most recent bug i posted in the bugtracker
[08:27:49] <sbx> it has interesting results too
[08:29:39] <Wumpus> hmm
[08:29:45] <Wumpus> spark's ass has gotten bigger *still*
[08:30:20] * Darke thwaps Wumpus with a trout. "Bad creature. I've been resisting the temptation to make bad puns about it. You can too." <grin>
[08:33:49] * Wumpus snatches the trout with one of his tentacles and throws it far into the air, catching it in his mouth
[08:34:26] <sbx> ... tentacles ... ?
[08:36:09] * Wumpus has numerous tentacles
[08:36:58] * sbx wonders why he is only humanoid.
[08:37:38] * Wumpus is part time humanoid
[08:39:06] <Wumpus> oh there's a thing...
[08:39:19] <Wumpus> sleep fields appear not to work on your party members; was thie the way it was in the original?
[08:39:29] <sbx> i dont think so
[08:39:47] <sbx> they are supposed to work on NPCs too
[08:40:27] <Wumpus> haven't tried that
[08:40:30] <Wumpus> they work on me though :(
[08:40:42] <sbx> Ctrl-D :)
[08:40:49] <Wumpus> what's that?
[08:40:59] <sbx> delete object
[08:41:15] <sbx> if object is a container it will drop its items
[08:41:38] * sbx just found out about Ctrl-D and is currently having fun with it.
[08:44:30] * Wumpus likes LB's scroll :)
[08:45:11] <sbx> and of course the funnest way to quit Exult is to Ctrl-D the Avatar
[08:45:19] <sbx> most fun
[08:46:06] <sbx> after you Ctrl-D LB you gotta Ctrl-D his chambermaid too
[08:55:18] <sbx> as anyone else got the Surok bug?
[08:55:28] <Darke> 'Surok bug'?
[08:55:34] <sbx> if it is a bug
[08:55:40] <sbx> i posted it to bugtracker
[08:56:49] * Wumpus snarls
[08:56:55] <Wumpus> something b0rked with links' forms
[08:57:49] <Wumpus> hmm
[08:58:01] * Wumpus 's BG has his SF password scrawled over it :)
[08:58:16] <Wumpus> (yay for dry erase marker + kind of laminated)
[08:58:24] <sbx> BG?
[08:58:41] <Wumpus> BG map even
[08:58:45] <Wumpus> Black Gate
[08:59:09] <Wumpus> hmm, now having a Black Gate in my room would be cool :)
[08:59:24] <sbx> but the Guardian could enter your room
[08:59:46] <Wumpus> bah, he's just a muppet
[09:00:03] <sbx> "In the unlikely event the Avatar stops me, I will enter Earth through the Black Gate that the unwitting male Wumpus built in his room.
[09:00:04] <sbx> "
[09:00:54] <sbx> you better start collecting blackrock
[09:01:28] <Wumpus> i've got a dirty great chunk of blackrock right there :)
[09:03:23] <sbx> need a wand to mold it too
[09:06:09] <sbx> the sound effect(from dominus' pack) for the magebane sword in SI sounds like a shotgun
[09:06:31] * Wumpus will just go through the gate and "borrow" Rudyom's Wand
[09:07:40] * sbx posted to the forum about not taking stuff from Rudyom.
[09:09:33] <sbx> oh no
[09:09:35] <sbx> where is ucxt?
[09:10:01] <Darke> Where is ucxt not?
[09:10:07] <sbx> it is not in ~/build/exult-0.96beta1/usecode/ anymore?
[09:10:48] <sbx> i mean the usecode directory
[09:10:51] <Darke> It's under usecode/ucxt/ and you need to make it manually it's not been integrated into the proper configure system yet. Just make makefile.unix IIRC.
[09:11:02] <sbx> it is not there
[09:12:13] <Wumpus> oh, it was ucdump that i had tried and failed to use succsefully
[09:12:15] <Darke> It's still in the cvs 'version'. <grin> Perhaps it was removed since it's not actually part of the source distro?
[09:12:37] <sbx> Darke: perhaps, i will download cvs
[09:13:05] <sbx> Wumpus: they said wud was better but it's output is not compatible with wuc
[09:13:12] <Darke> sbx: You know you want to live on the edge. <grin>
[09:14:37] <sbx> downloading Exult.zip
[09:15:12] <sbx> wait maybe i shouldnt get a snapshot
[09:15:29] <sbx> this is dated before the beta isnt it?
[09:15:49] <Darke> I think so.
[09:16:16] <sbx> is ucxt in cvs more up to date?
[09:16:19] <Darke> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=2335 Follow these instructions using anonymous cvs access. <grin>
[09:16:36] <Darke> Yep. Much more up to date.
[09:18:18] <Wumpus> `The certificate is valid but does not appear to have been assigned to this server. Do you wish to continue loading?' :-(
[09:19:08] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[09:19:13] * Darke|afk will be back soon.
[09:22:55] * sbx wishes he had aptget
[09:29:19] * Wumpus hmms
[09:29:27] <Wumpus> still got exult running :) i suppose i should kill it
[09:29:34] <Wumpus> stupid intermittent bugs :(
[09:29:44] <sbx> hehe
[09:29:50] <sbx> Wumpus don't you have apt get?
[09:29:55] <Wumpus> yeah i do
[09:29:57] <sbx> How convenient would you say it is?
[09:30:08] <Wumpus> also, stupid optimiations making debugging bewildering :(
[09:30:16] <sbx> -02?
[09:30:22] <Wumpus> yeah :|
[09:31:03] <sbx> Would you say apt get is a reason in itself to use Debian?
[09:32:05] * Wumpus shrugs... if you're willing to use testing, I'd say yes; if you want to use stable, then its rather less attractive, since you won't be upgrading nearly as much....
[09:32:58] <sbx> can you "aptget exult" ? :)
[09:33:00] <Wumpus> ... willing to use testing or unstable... I should say :) but i don't touch unstable :P
[09:33:05] <Wumpus> yeah, umm
[09:33:25] <Wumpus> there's a proper maintainer for exult :) his version is currently 0.94alpha5-4 ...
[09:33:35] <Wumpus> or you can add my repository and get 0.96beta1 :)
[09:33:35] <sbx> are you him?
[09:33:39] <Wumpus> nope
[09:34:01] * Wumpus only realised someone else was doign it today... the changelogs in CVS date back to alpha1, when Dancer was doing it
[09:34:05] <sbx> why does your repository not make you a proper maintainer?
[09:34:27] * Wumpus 's stuff doesn't go into the main distributions :)
[09:35:07] <sbx> how do people get their packages put into the default aptget search list?
[09:35:38] <Wumpus> well, to get into the main distribution, there's a process for becoming a recognised developer etc..
[09:35:48] <sbx> so i can make a "foo.deb" and have people with out of the box debians be able to do "aptget foo"
[09:35:50] <Wumpus> but any user can set up apt to get from other places than the main archives
[09:36:03] <sbx> but you have to add the url manually dont you?
[09:36:25] <Wumpus> the url to the repository, yeah;
[09:36:29] <sbx> so then why use aptget?
[09:36:47] <Wumpus> well, for the main distribution, its good :) and most repositories will have more than one package
[09:36:52] <Wumpus> and it takes care of upgrading nicely :)
[09:36:52] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[09:37:02] <sbx> i see
[09:37:31] * sbx wonders if he should convert to a (insert nickname given to Debian users).
[09:37:48] * Wumpus doesn't know if there is such a nickname :)
[09:38:14] <Darke> Debianite?
[09:38:20] <sbx> potatohead?
[09:38:43] <Darke> sbx: That's apt. <grin, duck & run>
[09:39:01] <Wumpus> potato will be replaced soon :)
[09:39:10] <sbx> apthead?
[09:39:16] <sbx> :-)
[09:39:22] * Wumpus wants chocolate
[09:39:29] <sbx> chocolatehead
[09:39:53] <Wumpus> yum!
[09:40:36] <Wumpus> hmm
[09:40:43] <Wumpus> hmm
[09:40:46] <Wumpus> HMmmm
[09:40:51] * Wumpus has one xserver to many running :)
[09:40:59] <sbx> is one too many?
[09:41:02] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("BRB")
[09:41:28] * sbx wonders the reason for running more than one X.
[09:41:39] <Darke> I'm guessing he means two, which is one too many. <grin>
[09:41:47] <sbx> (on a single PC)
[09:41:47] <sbx> ah
[09:41:51] <sbx> well i guess so
[09:41:59] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[09:42:19] <Wumpus> no, two is one too many :P
[09:42:26] <sbx> i see
[09:42:42] <sbx> What was on display :1?
[09:42:53] <Wumpus> :1 was where i was chatting from
[09:42:59] <Wumpus> :0 was locked up with exult
[09:43:13] <Wumpus> which i finally killed ;-p
[09:56:50] <Wumpus> is there an email address for "the exult team" ?
[09:57:22] <Wumpus> (adding finishing touches to this @#*^ package)
[10:00:29] <Wumpus> hehe
[10:00:38] * Wumpus observes teleport map for SI... pretty crowded, isn't it? :)
[10:02:13] <Darke> Wumpus: The address to the exult-general ML is usually used for the 'exult team' email address.
[10:02:54] * sbx gets mailings from the ML backwards.
[10:08:04] <Wumpus> the posting list for that is exult-general@lists.sourceforge.net , right?
[10:08:11] <Wumpus> s/posting list/posting address/
[10:08:38] <Wumpus> List-Post: <mailto:exult-general@lists.sourceforge.net>
[10:08:40] <Wumpus> I guess so :)
[10:08:40] <Darke> exult-general@lists.sourceforge.net
[10:08:45] <Darke> Looks like it.
[10:15:37] <sbx> takhisis?
[10:16:36] <Wumpus> okay
[10:16:42] <Wumpus> *this* should be the last build
[10:17:22] <Wumpus> takhisis = king (?) (queen was tiamat?) of the dragons in ... dragonlance maybe? something like that
[10:18:27] <matto> Takhisis was the dark queen in dragonlance
[10:18:32] <sbx> hehe
[10:18:32] * sbx looks at Darke.
[10:18:40] <Wumpus> oh :)
[10:18:41] <Darke> sbx: Name of yet another rpg character from aeons ago. <grin>
[10:18:41] <Wumpus> well there ya go
[10:18:51] <matto> the opposite of paladine
[10:18:53] <sbx> matto: ah
[10:19:28] * Darke also had an email address of 'paladine' at one point in time as well, as well as 'gilean'.
[10:19:48] * matto doesn't remember any Fluff in dragonlance
[10:19:56] <Darke> I tend to rotate my email addresses throughout the years. It 'minimises' spam. <grin>
[10:20:25] <Wumpus> *shrug*
[10:20:30] <Wumpus> i get little spam at the moment
[10:20:43] <Wumpus> and all ofi t comes via by far my oldest account
[10:20:45] <matto> I get a lot but most of it gets filtered before I see it
[10:21:01] <Wumpus> (and *that* spam took off like nothing else a month or two ago... which is odd, since i haven't used that account in ages....)
[10:21:06] <Darke> matto: No. They were ad&d characters. Takhisis was at one point in time a dark-elf mage. Then a high-elf priest in another campaign, then a Mutated Animal fox in a Gamma World campaign.
[10:21:32] * Darke gets most of his spam from posting to usenet.
[10:22:02] * sbx wonders what fluff has to do with rabbits(it only makes me think of birds).
[10:22:13] <matto> sbx: ah ha!!!!
[10:22:20] <matto> sbx: I've been telling Darke about the virtues of bird fluff
[10:23:02] <sbx> my uncle had a parakeet that would fluff out when you tried to touch it
[10:23:02] <sbx> that is what i think of
[10:23:12] <Darke> sbx: You've never seen a rabbit shake itself and 'fluff' out it's hair? Especially an angora breed?
[10:24:12] <sbx> I don't think I have seen an angora breed rabbit.
[10:24:12] <sbx> Darke: are you particularly fluffy?
[10:25:06] <Wumpus> hrmphm
[10:25:18] <Wumpus> ftp URLs with passwords and different ports and all get pretty horrendous
[10:25:26] <matto> my mom has a parrot who fluffs itself out and sends little fluff feathers flying all over the place hehehe
[10:25:34] <Wumpus> ftp://user:passwd@host:port/path/to/file
[10:25:41] <Wumpus> hehe matto
[10:25:46] * Darke is one of the 'shorter' haired breeds, as is SharpTooth
[10:26:47] <matto> ok I am <fluff> going to bed now
[10:27:14] <sbx> ?date
[10:27:14] <exultbot> It is now Sun Dec 2 10:27:14 2001 (GMT).
[10:27:23] <sbx> good morning
[10:27:53] <Darke> Night matto.
[10:29:18] <Wumpus> g'night :)
[10:30:17] * sbx finally has ucxt.
[10:31:13] <sbx> (again)
[10:32:58] <sbx> hmm am i supposed to run configure before make -f makefile.unix?
[10:37:20] <Wumpus> brr
[10:37:21] <Wumpus> exult: relocation error: /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0: undefined symbol: XF86VidModeQueryExtension
[10:37:28] <Wumpus> sulk
[10:37:33] * Wumpus can't even play exult now
[10:37:55] <sbx> how did you do that?
[10:37:58] * Wumpus reads instead
[10:38:04] <Wumpus> I upgraded SDL :)
[10:38:09] <Wumpus> thats also why I'm recompiling
[10:38:13] <Darke> sbx: You just need to configure and make exult (it needs a few of exult's .o's) then make -f makefile.unix.
[10:38:16] <Wumpus> apparently its not entirely backwards compatible, which is sucky
[10:39:06] <sbx> Darke: i need to spend 45 minutes building exult just to make a usecode decompiler?
[10:39:37] * Wumpus will add uctxt to exult-tools, but i'm going to get these debs out into the world first
[10:39:52] <Darke> sbx: Well, no. Normally you already have exult built. <grin> It needs Configure.o IIRC so you can just do a make in the conf/ directory. I'll double check any others.
[10:40:19] <sbx> Wumpus: what else is in exult-tools?
[10:40:45] <Wumpus> exult_studio and ... uhh... something
[10:40:46] <Wumpus> *checks*
[10:41:02] <Darke> sbx: You need to do a global configure, then just make in conf/ and files/ and then the make -f makefile.unix.
[10:41:06] <Wumpus> ucc
[10:41:20] <sbx> Darke: already did the global configure
[10:41:42] <sbx> Darke: i will make in conf and files after this current make fails
[10:42:02] <sbx> hehe there it goes
[10:42:07] * Darke nods. If you're making ucxt, then it should fail at the link stage.
[10:42:11] <Wumpus> are there any other tools floating around i can include?
[10:42:14] <Wumpus> (does ucc even work?)
[10:42:42] <Wumpus> oh yeah, and include appropriate docs in the exult-tools package :)
[10:42:47] <Darke> Wumpus: ucc currently doesn't work. And it's probably not the best idea to include ucxt for the moment, since it's not really all that much use. <grin>
[10:43:00] <Wumpus> darke- so neither is exult_studio ;-p
[10:43:05] <sbx> the usecode related docs are pretty scattered and unordered
[10:43:10] <Wumpus> *nod*
[10:43:42] <Wumpus> hrmm
[10:43:47] <Wumpus> whyfore has my download stoppped
[10:44:14] <Darke> sbx: The most accurate usecode docs are usecode/ucxt/Docs/opcodes.txt it's the datafile that ucxt requires to work. It's not all that readable though.
[10:45:27] <sbx> Darke: oh absolutely it is accurate just unordered(last time i checked) :-)
[10:46:25] <sbx> nevermind i just looked at it
[10:46:28] <sbx> it is better looking now
[10:46:47] <Darke> Docs/opcodes.txt is actually ordered as well. <grin> Just not all that readable. And a bit of the other usecode documentation is actually incorrect as well.
[10:47:04] <Wumpus> fsck
[10:47:11] <sbx> yes i hadnt looked at the file in a while
[10:47:15] * Wumpus deleted a hundred megs or so of stuff :(
[10:47:31] <sbx> Yet another Random Datafile format :-)
[10:47:39] <sbx> forewhy Wumpus?
[10:47:48] <Darke> (Docs/opcodes.txt) I'm tossing up the idea to turn it into a xml file like the configure script, just so it can be 'easily' parsed and turned into a webpage.
[10:47:50] <Wumpus> i moved it to /tmp, and forgot about it
[10:47:55] <Wumpus> and it got cleaned :(
[10:48:08] * Darke ickfluffs. Not Good(tm).
[10:48:08] <sbx> moved what to tmp?
[10:48:27] <Wumpus> oh just some netbook type stuff, easy to get again
[10:48:29] <sbx> oh and you automagically delete things in tmp? :-)
[10:48:31] <Wumpus> but annoying over a modem
[10:48:39] <sbx> hmm hundred megs of netbook type stuff
[10:48:41] <Wumpus> yeah, it cleans /tmp on reboot...
[10:48:48] <Wumpus> I suppose I could tell it not to do that :P
[10:49:04] <Wumpus> but its usually a Good Idea, except when i absent mindedly shuffle stuff afround
[10:49:24] <sbx> hehe my /var/tmp has files back to May 16
[10:49:33] <sbx> oh wait
[10:49:42] <sbx> 13th
[10:49:54] * Wumpus 's $HOME/tmp goes back to 2000-12-19 :P
[10:49:56] * Darke just recently cleaned his /tmp it had files in it dating back to when he first installed this copy of linux.
[10:50:28] <sbx> Wumpus: Aug 26 1999
[10:50:41] <Wumpus> :)
[10:50:50] <Wumpus> i did my most recent install more recently than that ;-p
[10:51:04] <sbx> not sure that is a created time though
[10:51:21] <sbx> nevermind that is modification time
[10:51:33] <sbx> my oldest time in ~/tmp is feb3 2001
[10:52:34] * Wumpus wonders when he switched to debian from mandrake
[10:52:49] <sbx> what is Mandrake like and how does Debian compare?
[10:53:10] <sbx> yay:
[10:53:11] <sbx> Ultima 7 usecode disassembler v0.6.1
[10:53:12] <sbx> compiled with exult 0.96beta1
[10:53:37] <Wumpus> i found the redhat style ones a little too annoying to keep up to date; i gave up mandrake when my mass of upgrades had started breaking to many things
[10:53:53] <Wumpus> (mdk being based on redhat... or at least, it was back then)
[10:54:06] <Wumpus> it was pretty "easy" though :)
[10:54:09] <Wumpus> (mdk that is)
[10:54:17] * Darke grins at sbx. It's nice to know it actually 'works' on someone elses box. <grin>
[10:54:34] <sbx> 0039 db '@I think the gangplank is blocked.@'
[10:54:46] <sbx> Wumpus: do you dislike redhat too?
[10:55:17] <sbx> Darke: is extern:[something] supposed to change into an intrinsic call?
[10:55:21] <Wumpus> *shrug* well as i said, the upgrading of redhat style stuff got on my nerves after i got too far away from the original install
[10:55:31] <sbx> Darke: i mean is that what the extern is? an intrinsic
[10:55:39] * Wumpus used RH5.2, then MDK7.0, and then Debian potato for a while, and now Debian Testing
[10:55:53] * sbx only used RH briefly and then Slackware.
[10:56:24] <sbx> i dont have much experience in other distributions
[10:56:33] <Wumpus> a potential problem with Debian Stable is that (at least potato) gets pretty far behind the cutting edge :P but then, I suppose thats the price you pay for stability. I haven't had any problems with testing, at least, none that I didn't cause myself :)
[10:56:44] <sbx> what will they call Debian Testing?
[10:56:53] <Wumpus> well
[10:56:56] <Darke> sbx: 'extern' is used to call another intrinsic function. The number referenced is the 'index' of the 'extern' intrinsic array.
[10:56:59] <sbx> Debian XP?
[10:57:03] <Wumpus> the current testing is "woody", and its due to become stable Really Soon Now
[10:57:26] <Wumpus> the current "unstable" is "sid"....
[10:57:33] <sbx> Darke: hehe so the answer is "yes"
[10:58:10] <Darke> sbx: Maybe. <grin> I wasn't sure exactly what your question was in the first place.
[10:58:25] <sbx> Darke: my question was the one in which the answer is what you said
[10:59:18] <Darke> sbx: 'call extern:[0000]' under -fz would look something like 'Func08FF(...)'. FYI.
[10:59:36] <Darke> (or it will in the next few days anyway, I hope)
[10:59:48] <sbx> Func08FFF?
[10:59:50] <sbx> FF
[11:00:18] <Darke> Yep. it's the 0000th index in the .extern array detailed at the start of the assembler dump.
[11:00:40] <Darke> eg. 'call extern:[0001]' under -fz would look something like 'Func0829(...)'.
[11:00:48] <sbx> why not use the names of intrinsics in the script output?
[11:01:00] <sbx> like GetNPCName or whatever
[11:01:35] <sbx> 'get_random(...)'
[11:02:09] <Darke> Erk. Wrong terminology, I must be half asleep. It's not calling those functions, it's calling another 'internal' function. Umm... just like the one you're listing.
[11:02:54] <sbx> half asleep? you usually come in #exult about now dont you?
[11:03:46] <Darke> Yes, but I was up early this morning (8am) after getting to sleep last night after being on #exult for too long at 6am.
[11:04:40] <sbx> Will the output formats of ucxt besides -fz ever compile/assemble with anything?
[11:04:58] * sbx gives Darke some pep pills.
[11:05:48] <Darke> Not likely. I don't really see any use for an 'assembler' if you have a compiler for exult script (although I did consider quickly hacking one together), and I'm going to remove -fs as soon as I get -fz up to the stage -fs is at the moment.
[11:06:58] <sbx> Oh, why does it take such time to disassemble a function? wud does it in like 2 seconds
[11:07:12] <sbx> that is not a criticism, just wondering
[11:07:50] <sbx> oh and dont you mean you are removing -fa?
[11:09:15] <Darke> ucdump just parses the 'one' function you're looking for. ucxt loads and parses _all_ the functions into memory, so it can actually use some of the data in these functions to decompile the one you're looking for. <grin> It's one of the two reasons I had to rewrite the underlying file loading code. I'm currently implementing the 'call' opcode which needs this information at the moment.
[11:09:40] <sbx> i see
[11:09:47] <sbx> nice
[11:09:49] <Darke> Nope. -fa stays. -fs is the 'old and broken' decompiler code.
[11:10:05] <sbx> -fa stays? ok then.. will i ever be able to assemble it's output with anything?
[11:10:09] <Darke> You can try it, it looks pretty, but it's pretty flawed. <grin>
[11:10:24] * sbx has looked at 96 in all of them.
[11:10:40] <Darke> You'll only be able to 'compile' -fa's output if you write a compiler for it. <grin>
[11:11:19] <Darke> It's not _really_ that difficult to do if you want to try. <fangygrin> I just don't have time at the moment.
[11:11:38] <sbx> compile, whatever... (i would have to know a lot more about usecode to make one) ok then, what is the purpose of leaving it in after -fz works?
[11:13:31] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[11:13:31] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[11:13:52] <Colourless> hi
[11:13:56] <sbx> hi
[11:14:33] <Darke> So we can remove 'ucdump' and 'wud' from the source tree? <grin> Mainly because it's 'simple' (it costs almost nothing to keep it maintained in comparison to -fz), and it's a good fallback to compare things against, if I (or someone else) breaks -fz in a subtle way.
[11:14:42] * Darke greetingsbows to Colourless.
[11:14:56] <sbx> aah i understand
[11:15:10] * Wumpus tiredly waves to colourless
[11:15:14] <sbx> ucxt -ro -ac -fa 96 looks more like wud output... is this intentional?
[11:15:44] <Darke> <grin> It's the same reason you still have a couple of 'manual' screw drivers around when you've got a handy-dandy power tool. Simple things tend to work when more complex things don't.
[11:15:57] <Darke> Yep. The similarity is deliberate.
[11:16:08] <Darke> (It also looks like ucdump output as well. <grin>)
[11:16:26] <Colourless> debugging the exult interpreter is easier with the disassembled output
[11:16:47] <sbx> hmm has anyone used u7wizard? what was the decompiler that came with it that made C like output?
[11:16:51] * Darke actually had to double check what -ro did, he hasn't used it in that long. <grin>
[11:17:01] <sbx> heh
[11:18:28] <Darke> There's half a dozen #defines in one big block at the start of ucfunc.cc that just dumps debug output to cout. I normally use that rather then resorting to the more 'primitive' -fa information. <grin>
[11:20:09] * sbx might be thinking of an earlier version of ucxt.
[11:20:37] * Darke normally only #defines one or two of them when appropriate. Generating 4,000+ lines of text for a less then 100 line function is rather... overwhelming. <grin>
[11:21:37] <sbx> Darke: does adding -bg to the command options not do anything?
[11:21:43] * Darke thinks he needs to do some serious cleaning up and refactoring of these source files once he's gotten ucxt into a 'workable' state.
[11:22:41] <Darke> IIRC it defaults to bg. Doing -si should change it to Serpent Isle, unless I've broken something.
[11:23:08] <sbx> so i will assume -bg doesn't do anything different
[11:23:24] <sbx> ucxtread.txt is the unordered file i was referring to earlier btw
[11:24:22] <Darke> Nope. From memory, if you don't specify it'll try to find both the bg and si files. If you specifiy -bg it will only try to find the bg usecode file, and if it doesn't then it should complain.
[11:25:37] <sbx> anyway with ucxt to list all functions and then pick one(ie do -fl on every function)
[11:25:41] <sbx> ?
[11:25:56] <Darke> (ucxt) Yes. It's part readme, part help document, and part archive file. With bits of code and documentation that have been removed from the code that I don't use anymore, but are good to keep around for reference.
[11:26:11] <Darke> 'ucxt -fl -a' should list all the functions.
[11:26:37] <sbx> yay
[11:27:28] <Darke> I need to clean up a bit the output for all the -a options, they were kind of grafted onto the original function when I noticed they were easier to do that way then to duplicate the code into their own function.
[11:28:36] <sbx> this is an impressive program
[11:28:58] * Darke tried to make everything as 'generic' as possible so he didn't have to have three thousand option settings.
[11:29:03] <sbx> i think the people who created Ultima7 would think so too
[11:29:09] <sbx> oh
[11:29:31] <sbx> that is good, as i would probably be trying to figure out what all those options meant right now
[11:29:40] <Darke> -ac will hopefully create 'automated comments' in both -fa and -fz output formats as well, for example.
[11:30:32] <Darke> Currently -ac only works in -fa, though.
[11:30:45] <sbx> heh now you tell me(was just testing that)
[11:30:56] * Darke laughs evily.
[11:31:44] <Darke> The Docs/opcodes.txt file doesn't even have an output formatting column for the comments of -fz yet. I'll be putting one in when I need it. <grin>
[11:31:55] <sbx> cmp nac ac -> no difference
[11:32:11] <sbx> good
[11:32:16] <sbx> when?
[11:32:20] <sbx> hehe
[11:32:32] <Darke> When I have something I need to put an autocomment on? <grin>
[11:35:50] * sbx is going to add syntax highlighting definitions for ucxt to his text editors.
[11:36:00] <Wumpus> hehe
[11:36:08] <Wumpus> and then darke will change the format of the output :P
[11:36:18] <sbx> :-|
[11:36:33] <Wumpus> grr
[11:36:59] * Wumpus needs a site where he can get prices for flights from <arbitrary point of departure> to <arbitrary destination>
[11:38:06] <Darke> sbx: Standard 'C' highlighting should work for the most part. That's what Jeff based his usecode-script on.
[11:40:02] <sbx> Darke: for -fa too though
[11:40:33] <Darke> sbx: Fair enough. <grin> -fa is certainly going to need a bit of fiddling to get right.
[11:41:19] <sbx> where do the -ofile's go?
[11:42:13] <Darke> Relative path. -ofile if you're sitting in usecode/ucxt will create a file called 'usecode/ucxt/file'.
[11:42:49] <sbx> oh! ... i did '-ofile function96.ucc' :P
[11:43:33] * Darke grins.
[11:43:53] <Darke> Some of the options are... ideosyncratic in ways. Mainly because they evolved from ucdumps.
[11:44:09] <sbx> hmm
[11:44:14] <sbx> will the functions be named eventually?
[11:44:43] <sbx> like "gangplank_raise"
[11:44:57] <sbx> or just gangplank
[11:45:11] <Darke> Yep. When 1) Someone sits down and creates a list of 'names' to associate with function numbers. (I started doing this, but it's a big task.) and 2) I implement it. <grin>
[11:45:31] <sbx> i mean just for -fz i guess it would be unecessary for -fa?
[11:45:43] --> wjp has joined #exult
[11:45:43] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[11:45:49] <wjp> hi
[11:46:25] <sbx> hi
[11:46:40] * Darke bows. "Hi wjp."
[11:46:47] <Colourless> hi
[11:46:56] <Darke> sbx: Somewhat unnecessary, yes. But definately for -fz.
[11:47:18] <Wumpus> hmm
[11:47:21] <Wumpus> wtf
[11:47:24] <Wumpus> happened
[11:47:26] <Wumpus> here
[11:47:30] <Wumpus> stupid client
[11:47:48] <Colourless> I
[11:47:50] <Colourless> do
[11:47:51] <Colourless> not
[11:47:52] <Wumpus> oh, wjp came in... `lo wjp
[11:47:53] <Colourless> know
[11:48:03] * Darke would look oddly at Wumpus, but he looks odd all the time.
[11:48:11] <Wumpus> man
[11:48:17] * Wumpus brb
[11:48:19] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("No windows for this server")
[11:48:33] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[11:48:42] <Wumpus> hopefully a bit better behaved now
[11:48:46] <sbx> wb
[11:49:02] <Wumpus> wjp- final build of new packages happening now (or at least, I hope its the final one)
[11:49:06] <sbx> Darke: well syntax highlighting works if i make the output files end in .c instead of .ucc :-)
[11:49:09] <Colourless> i think there is enough australians here to stage a take over :-)
[11:49:20] <wjp> uh oh
[11:49:32] <Wumpus> colourless: :)
[11:49:39] * Wumpus considers defecting :P
[11:50:00] * sbx is loyal to Exult no matter whose flag it is under.
[11:50:27] <Wumpus> :)
[11:50:44] * Darke wonders what stage we're taking over.
[11:51:19] * sbx thinks Darke is too tired to make that funny.
[11:51:35] <sbx> jk :-)
[11:51:46] * sbx has no idea how tired Darke is.
[11:53:23] * Darke thinks Darke is too tired to know how tired he is.
[11:53:43] <sbx> hehe
[11:53:53] <sbx> what does Kirben do?
[11:54:19] * Darke does think that Darke thinks he's funny when he's too tired to know how tired he is.
[11:55:38] <Colourless> make the snapshots
[11:56:19] <Darke> Sit on the channel completely silent for the last... 11 hours?
[11:56:46] <Wumpus> oh yay, its in the top level directory
[11:56:54] * Darke blinks and realises just how long he's been sitting here.
[11:56:59] <Colourless> there hasn't exactly been a lot of code changes recently
[11:57:00] <Wumpus> :P
[11:57:32] <wjp> I wonder if it would be ok to commit things now? Or should I wait till after the branch?
[11:57:37] --- Kirben is now known as MrIdle
[11:58:25] <sbx> MrIdle, hmm... Darke it looks like your guess was correct
[11:59:05] * Darke looks innocent.
[11:59:45] <Colourless> even exultbot has been more active than kirben :-)
[12:00:05] <exultbot> yay!
[12:00:19] * exultbot rejoices
[12:00:32] * Darke patpats that bot. "Calm down."
[12:00:48] * exultbot goes back to his normal near-catatonic self
[12:00:55] * Colourless tells that bot, YOU ARE NOT REAL!
[12:01:09] <Wumpus> mmm cats...
[12:01:15] * Wumpus steals the cat from exultbot
[12:01:34] * exultbot suddenly finds he's near-atonic now
[12:01:35] <Colourless> bloody cats
[12:01:54] <Wumpus> eek, its a near atomic bot
[12:02:00] * Wumpus reals it outside and calls the military
[12:02:07] <Wumpus> wheels it outside, maybe
[12:02:35] <Wumpus> </silly cause=tired>
[12:02:53] * sbx hopes exultbot doesn't cast Armageddon.
[12:03:08] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:03:15] * Darke wonders if he has any... like, 'normal' music in his playlist that he listens to while coding.
[12:03:18] <Wumpus> which mage is it that blows himself up for you?
[12:03:26] <Colourless> exultbot doesn't have such powers
[12:03:48] <Wumpus> oh thats right, erethian
[12:04:21] <Colourless> well darke what 'abnormal' music do you have in there :-)
[12:05:44] <Darke> Umm... The Chipmunks singing 'Love Shack'... Oingo Boingo's 'Insanity'... the chipmunks again singing 'People Are Strange' as well as the original 'People are strange'...
[12:05:51] <sbx> Darke has his own soundtrack
[12:06:04] <Wumpus> people are very strange :)
[12:06:17] <sbx> so are some rabbits :)
[12:06:32] <Colourless> yeah, some even roleplay as rabbits :-)
[12:06:56] <Darke> ... AC-DC's 'You Shook me all night long' (out of Darke's 'soundtrack')... Amy Grant 'Big Yellow Taxi'... Bee Gees 'Spics and the Specs'...
[12:07:50] <Darke> ... Animaniacs 'Little old lady from pacedena'... Oingo Boingo's 'Open Eyes'... Chalene's 'I've never been to me'... Aldo Nova 'Fantasy'...
[12:10:00] <wjp> Darke: about that function naming you were talking about when I just walked in: you can get names for the first 1024 functions from text.flx (maybe with Obj_ prepended or something)
[12:10:37] <Darke> ... Marillion 'Easter' and 'Lavender'... Oingo Boingo's 'We Close Out Eyes' (two verions one live, one not)... half a dozen of Heather Alexander's songs. Three different copies of 'The Bad Touch' (one original, one techno, one instrumental, this is also one of Darke's 'soundtrack' tunes, you may know it as 'Let's do it like they do on the Discovery channel' <fangygrin>)...
[12:11:17] <sbx> Darke: (music) i believe we have a frame of reference now :-)
[12:11:23] <Darke> wjp: Thanks. I'll try and hunt that down, it'd be easier then 'renaming' them all. <grin>
[12:11:47] <sbx> the gangplank function better damn well be Obj_gangplank :P
[12:12:30] <Darke> sbx: You sure? There's also '88 lines about 44 women' also out of Darke's 'soundtrack'. <grin> I think I shall stop now. <innocentwiggle>
[12:13:00] * sbx is not sure he wants to know any more about Darke's Soundtrack
[12:13:36] <Darke> sbx: (gangplank) It'll be called whatever it'll be called. I shall probably extract the function names from the flex and add them to a configuration file for simplicity's sake.
[12:13:59] <Darke> sbx: (soundtrack) You did mention it did you not?
[12:14:02] <wjp> Darke: shapes/items.cc reads text.flx, btw
[12:14:46] * Wumpus dances
[12:14:55] <sbx> if it is called something strange like 'UCFunc_DoubleClick_BargeItem2' i will just rename it to 'gangplank' for you :P
[12:15:12] <wjp> sbx: that file contains the object names
[12:15:13] <Wumpus> hmm
[12:15:22] <Darke> wjp: Thanks. <glance at file> That looks exceedinly simple. <grin>
[12:15:23] <Wumpus> is there any leads on that "multiple barge weirdness' bug in the tracker?
[12:15:30] * Wumpus experienced it himself today, hehe... its funky :P
[12:15:57] * Darke wonders why Wumpus is dancing, and to what music? <grin>
[12:16:07] <sbx> wjp: oh... hmm i knew that... i thought you meant it had the specific function names the designers of the usecode put in :)
[12:16:13] * Wumpus is dancing to the music of `HDD linking exult, finally' :-)
[12:16:14] * sbx is glad now.
[12:16:29] <Wumpus> hmm music... would be agood idea though
[12:16:36] * Wumpus considers his CDs
[12:16:54] <Wumpus> nothing i'm really in the mood for though, sigh
[12:18:56] <sbx> will it be possible to add extra functions to the usecode for the regular BG game?
[12:19:19] <sbx> what does it mean when you double click something and it says Usecode xxx not found?
[12:19:45] <Colourless> it leterally means that there is no usecode function
[12:19:55] <Colourless> s/leterally/literally/
[12:20:02] <sbx> Could someone add a new function for that in?
[12:20:15] <Colourless> yeah
[12:20:33] <sbx> hmm intriguing
[12:20:38] <Colourless> once ucc is up and running again
[12:20:55] <Colourless> exult has a usecode patching abilities
[12:21:05] <Wumpus> Skara Brae isn't as well behaved in exult as it might be
[12:21:07] * sbx ponders making the Kilrathi ship a working transport vehicle.
[12:21:21] <Wumpus> i got a number of interesting effects, have to check which, if any (or all?) , of them occur in the Real Thing
[12:21:29] <Wumpus> sbx- oooh :)
[12:21:30] <sbx> Wumpus: the chairs do move
[12:21:39] <Wumpus> sbx- yeah I know that :)
[12:21:42] * Wumpus meant:
[12:21:49] <sbx> heh that is something i wasnt sure was in the original
[12:22:24] <Wumpus> - Rowena ? got left too far away from the blacksmith dude when she left the party, and they didn't notice each other, and gave the stupid "where is X" speech whenver i tried to talk to them, so I coudln' talk to them about sacrifice
[12:23:05] <Wumpus> - Rowena returned to the tower at 3am, even after i had reunited her with the blacksmith
[12:23:15] <Wumpus> (is that even the right name?)
[12:23:22] <Wumpus> umm there was another one
[12:23:52] <Colourless> the first one sounds like it's simply due to exult's party following not being tight enough
[12:23:54] <Wumpus> oh yeah - there's a weird ghost in the town hall which you can't speak to, and never leaves, and never moves....
[12:23:56] <Wumpus> but that wasn't it
[12:23:59] <Wumpus> *thinks*
[12:24:06] <Colourless> that ghost is in the original as well
[12:24:38] <Wumpus> oh yeah, the dude who gives you his firedoom staff... he was still seen to be holding a firedoom staff after he gave it to me; is that supposed to happend?
[12:25:07] <Wumpus> also (i htink this *was* in the original though), 'seance' expires at midnight... but according to the Fellowship book it expires at dawn
[12:25:34] * sbx remembers funny effects in the original with NPC's and party members holding weapons.
[12:29:12] <sbx> where is a list of what the events are?
[12:29:29] <Colourless> events?
[12:29:39] <sbx> hmm not sure my vocabulary is correct
[12:29:44] <wjp> ucmachine.h
[12:29:50] <sbx> does eventid 1 mean the player double clicked?
[12:29:56] <wjp> yes
[12:30:21] <sbx> thanks
[12:31:39] <Wumpus> hrm wtf
[12:32:13] <Wumpus> new exult package seems to be bigger than before... i mean, i included some docs, but i also removed some stuff...
[12:32:18] <Wumpus> oh well *shrug* not *much* bigger
[12:36:58] <Wumpus> okay, i hereby declare the new pacakge to work :)
[12:37:17] <sbx> and so you declare it, so it shall be?
[12:37:49] <sbx> "Wumpus this doesn't work on my system!" "Yes it does, I declared it!"
[12:37:55] <Wumpus> yes :)
[12:38:12] <Wumpus> indeed
[12:39:48] <Wumpus> Does someone want to grab http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~michaelz/debian/unstable/main/binary-i386/exult_0.96beta1-1_i386.deb and whack it on the webpage in place of exult_0.96beta1_i386.deb
[12:39:50] <Wumpus> ? :)
[12:39:59] <Wumpus> it fixes, uhh..
[12:40:02] <Wumpus> *ooks up number*
[12:40:30] <sbx> Darke: what is a "truth" value?
[12:40:39] <wjp> true/false ?
[12:40:45] <sbx> Darke: nevermind sorry :P
[12:40:51] <sbx> yeah heh
[12:41:04] <Wumpus> It fixes 487526 (and 482324 indirectly)
[12:41:19] <wjp> Wumpus: sure, right away
[12:41:22] <sbx> integer 1 for true, 0 for false on the stack says opcodes.txt
[12:41:28] <wjp> want me to close those bugs too?
[12:42:06] <Wumpus> also, I have a patch to the debian/ directory, whats the best way to send them in? With the patch ,it should be possible for anyone to just roll their own debs (for ad ifferent arch, for example).... with no difficulty
[12:42:16] <Darke> sbx: <grin> It's 'under construction', it makes enough sense for me to work out what I'm doing, I'm not sure how much sense it makes to others though.
[12:42:29] <Wumpus> and its also the "real" fix to 382324, since at the moment, control is still "broken' in the way that is explained there (the control in cvs, that is)
[12:42:36] <Wumpus> 482324 even
[12:43:00] * Wumpus wonders if he's sufficiently tired as to make no sense
[12:43:22] <wjp> Wumpus: I get a 404 on that URL
[12:43:29] <Wumpus> really? *checks*
[12:43:42] <Wumpus> oops typo
[12:43:55] <Wumpus> debian/dists/unstable not debian/unstable
[12:44:12] <wjp> k, got it
[12:44:23] <Wumpus> cool :)
[12:44:42] * wjp wishes he would get 155Kb/s at home too :-)
[12:44:51] <Wumpus> hehe bastard :P
[12:45:08] * wjp is (ab)using his univ. account for this
[12:45:24] <Wumpus> hehe no quotas?
[12:45:27] <Wumpus> we have quotas on our uni accounts
[12:45:38] <Wumpus> reasonably generous ones though, as far as i'm concerned :)
[12:45:50] * wjp has a 1Gb quota
[12:45:57] <Wumpus> *blink*
[12:46:08] <Wumpus> for internet transfers? nice
[12:46:20] <wjp> ...plus plenty of local HD storage
[12:47:13] <wjp> ok, file updated
[12:47:39] <Wumpus> yay :)
[12:47:40] <Wumpus> thanks
[12:48:32] * Darke wonders if the wumpus is going to finally collapse into a ball and snooze. <grin>
[12:48:40] <Wumpus> soon, soon
[12:49:08] <-- MrIdle has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[12:49:55] <Wumpus> hmm
[12:49:59] <wjp> Wumpus: could you zip up your debian dir and put it online somewhere?
[12:50:03] <Wumpus> i can't attach a file to a bug in the tracker which i don't own
[12:50:24] <wjp> yeah
[12:50:26] <Wumpus> yeah, i was about to attach a patch to the earlier bug, but it appears i can't... I'll upload it instead, just a minute
[12:54:29] <Wumpus> oh hehe you closed it :)
[12:54:43] <Wumpus> http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~michaelz/files/exult/exult-0.96beta1.debian.patch
[12:55:37] <wjp> hmm, strange. I get a timeout on that URL from home, but it works from my univ. account
[12:56:25] <Wumpus> weird
[12:56:43] <Wumpus> uni's connection has been a little hiccupy tonight, so maybe you hit one of the hiccups :|
[12:57:29] <sbx> what is the difference between having four shorts on the stack, and having an array on the stack of that size?
[12:57:42] <wjp> an array is just one value
[12:57:55] <sbx> what does it reference?
[12:58:04] <Colourless> anything :-)
[12:58:13] <wjp> think LISP here :-)
[12:58:29] <Wumpus> WRT the `Can't save on Isle of Fire' (487959)... I got this *once*, but wasn't able to repeat it... and I had saved before that crash, too....
[12:58:38] * sbx doesn't know Lisp :-)
[12:58:39] <Darke> wjp: <cringefluff> Let's not and say we did. <grin>
[12:58:47] <wjp> :-)
[12:59:11] <Wumpus> bah
[12:59:17] <Wumpus> its the no-internet minute
[12:59:43] <wjp> a usecode value can be one of several things: undefined, an integer, a string, a pointer to an object or an array
[13:00:18] <wjp> an array of usecode values, that is
[13:00:32] <sbx> so the stack differentiates(sp?) between different types of values rather than just being a list of bytes?
[13:00:47] <Colourless> yeah
[13:00:49] <wjp> yeah, don't think of it as bytes
[13:01:01] <wjp> it's a stack of usecode values
[13:01:08] <Darke> sbx: Think of it as 'elements' or 'usecode values'.
[13:01:16] <Wumpus> bah, I don't get the jeweler problem either.. .just sold stuff to him perfectly succesfully :(
[13:01:21] <Wumpus> well :) i suppose ;-p
[13:01:24] <sbx> ah
[13:01:41] <wjp> Wumpus: the jeweler thing seems to be triggered by a very rare set of circumstances
[13:01:42] <sbx> Darke: yes elements is what you describe them as in opcodes.txt
[13:01:51] <Wumpus> *Nod*
[13:01:54] <Wumpus> fun, those :(
[13:02:03] <wjp> sbx: and 'usecode values' is what the exult source describes them as :-)
[13:02:10] <sbx> heh
[13:02:41] <Wumpus> oh i see, it has some followup heh :)
[13:02:47] <sbx> so if you do arrc on a group of items on the stack, and then pop it, you have pop'ed the entire array
[13:03:24] <Darke> Yep. A single array.
[13:03:41] <Wumpus> *reads followups* ahh, interesting... hehe, yeah, overloading me just now would be hard :) weight limit of 120 :P
[13:04:12] <wjp> Wumpus: think 'cannons', here ;-)
[13:04:36] <Wumpus> :)
[13:04:41] <sbx> nice thanks
[13:06:31] <Wumpus> hehe
[13:06:50] <Wumpus> the poor guard on top of the battlements seems to have fallen down and is patrolling the garden instead... or maybe tis a differnet one :)
[13:07:10] <wjp> strange... a traceroute from here stops at NSW-RNO-Int.ia4.optus.net.au (202.139.139.122)
[13:07:27] <wjp> ...while a traceroute from the univ. also passes that point, but happily continues
[13:08:16] <Wumpus> *avatar weilds dual cannons*
[13:08:22] <Wumpus> hehe
[13:08:27] <Wumpus> and noone's even telling me to stop it :)
[13:08:47] <Colourless> heh
[13:08:52] <wjp> stop it!
[13:08:56] <sbx> continue!
[13:09:04] <exultbot> stop it!
[13:09:08] <sbx> fire!
[13:09:08] <Wumpus> that's what they get for letting their guard fall off the battlements :)
[13:09:50] <Wumpus> bah
[13:09:53] <Wumpus> can't even lift an anchor
[13:10:14] <wjp> you could also set your strength to 1 ;-)
[13:10:27] <Colourless> or 0 :-)
[13:10:52] <Wumpus> it's a bit late now, i'm just getting my 4th and 5th cannon :)
[13:11:07] <Colourless> i wonder how having 0 strength effects combat
[13:12:55] * Darke grumbles and adds yet another column to his Random Datafile Format.
[13:13:18] * Darke thinks he's going to seriously have to look at xml Real Soon Now(tm).
[13:14:43] <Wumpus> hmm
[13:14:46] <Wumpus> still can't reproduce it
[13:14:59] <Wumpus> *shrug* i guess there's more to it than is obvious :)
[13:15:04] <Wumpus> s/obvious/known so far./
[13:15:32] <sbx> Darke: do you know XML?
[13:17:53] * sbx doesn't so doesn't know the advantage.
[13:18:03] <sbx> maybe i should ask Dominus
[13:18:15] <sbx> what he likes about it
[13:18:24] <Darke> sbx: I know 'enough' to deal with it. Perhaps I should have said, I should use the conf/* xml parser to base my file format around. <grin>
[13:18:55] * wjp isn't sure it's really an xml parser
[13:18:59] * Darke considers it handles very small simple 'xml' but it's enough.
[13:19:34] <Wumpus> hehe
[13:20:00] * Wumpus just started an SI game and got a single frame of the avatar standing on the beach at the beginning... with no boat or anything :)
[13:20:07] <sbx> for my programs i use a tree based config format like xml but without that exact format(<tag></tag>)
[13:20:12] <sbx> Wumpus: ?
[13:20:13] <Darke> Acutually I don't think it is. IIRC xml supports closing a tag simply with '</>' rather then with the appropriate opened tag.
[13:20:13] <wjp> hmm, there's a small problem in add_quantity that might cause problems in borderline cases
[13:20:33] <Wumpus> sbx- Its probably normal :) it was just weird to see, since i had moved the mouse out, so it was paused
[13:20:46] <sbx> oh
[13:21:08] * Darke wonders if he should hack that into the config parser. If if that will break things horribly. <grin>
[13:21:09] <wjp> ...then again, it might not cause any problems
[13:21:32] <sbx> wait wait... wait... opcodes.txt IS the datafile?
[13:21:40] <wjp> *grin*
[13:21:48] <sbx> hrmm.. makes sense
[13:22:00] <Wumpus> woah
[13:22:12] <Darke> sbx: Yep. It's the 'datafile' and also partically human readable. I wanted the information in one place. <grin> It's replicated so many times else where.
[13:22:14] <Wumpus> the bits of the wolrd that appear pink on the teleport map, are really bad for the eyes :)
[13:22:30] <sbx> i was wondering where this datafile it is supposed to be describing is... and why it had so many strange "control-type" characters
[13:22:41] <sbx> Darke: good idea
[13:22:56] <Colourless> wumpus: no kidding :-)
[13:23:36] <Darke> Cool! <hypnoticfluff>
[13:23:39] <wjp> oooh... nice...
[13:23:44] * wjp presses F4
[13:25:22] <Darke> Any idea why they're there for?
[13:25:52] <Colourless> unused sections of the map i'm guessing
[13:27:07] <wjp> yeah, so you could easily see where there's room for another room/dungeon if you needed it
[13:27:44] <wjp> (I guess, anyway :-) )
[13:30:07] * sbx wonders if its time he played through SI yet.
[13:31:29] <sbx> Darke: what would you call BG function 829 if you were to name it?
[13:32:07] <wjp> 829 decimal or hex?
[13:32:18] <sbx> h
[13:32:24] <Darke> sbx: In BG or SI? <grin> Give me a sec I'm halfway through a recompile.
[13:32:46] <sbx> I asked Darke because I thought he might know all functions by heart. :-)
[13:33:20] <wjp> check_gangplank?
[13:33:54] <wjp> check_gangplank_blocked?
[13:34:00] <wjp> gangplank_blocked?
[13:34:01] <Darke> shuffle_localc_insanely. <grin>
[13:34:18] <sbx> it doesnt do anything non-gangplank related?
[13:34:43] <Wumpus> :)
[13:34:53] <wjp> it's only called from 0x30d (gang plank) and 0x831 (which also seems to do gangplank stuff)
[13:35:02] * Wumpus hms
[13:35:16] * Wumpus finds his favourite "secret" in SI
[13:35:31] <wjp> ah, and 0x96 (gangplank too)
[13:35:57] <sbx> why are there two gangplank functions?
[13:36:01] <Darke> It's certainly got something to do with gangplank tests.
[13:36:10] <Wumpus> :)
[13:36:18] <wjp> because there's two gangplank shapes? :-)
[13:36:22] <Wumpus> someone had a gangplank fixation :)
[13:36:24] <Darke> Wumpus: What favourite secret?
[13:36:32] <sbx> ah i didnt know there were(or thought both could use the same code)
[13:36:40] <Wumpus> adrke- hmm, the back entrance to the shrine of somethingorother
[13:36:43] <Wumpus> in the thingie mountains
[13:36:45] <Wumpus> *gets map*
[13:36:47] <sbx> adrke?
[13:36:55] <wjp> aka. darke
[13:36:57] <wjp> ;-)
[13:37:07] <Darke> sbx: They do, there is almost no code in 0x96. Most of it is in the functions both of them call.
[13:37:11] <Wumpus> the NE mountains anyway
[13:37:13] <Wumpus> can't find map just now
[13:37:27] <Wumpus> there was a back entrance :) let you avoid a number of the riddles
[13:37:42] <Wumpus> (i only like it because i never found it mentioned anywhere else :))
[13:37:56] <sbx> Darke: yes i just wasnt sure that 829 was only used by the gangplank
[13:37:58] <Wumpus> way back wehn i was playing the first time
[13:38:07] * Wumpus notes that i've never actualyl finished the game
[13:38:18] <wjp> sbx: 0x96 is an 'open' gangplank, 0x30d is 'closed'
[13:38:19] * Darke has never actually started playing SI.
[13:38:21] * sbx never got far in SI either.
[13:38:32] <sbx> wjp: makes sense
[13:38:39] * Wumpus freed some of his companions from the banes, i think
[13:38:57] <Wumpus> but my memory of everything after the first visit to the frozen north is extremely vague
[13:38:59] <sbx> wjp: closed as in up
[13:39:07] <Wumpus> anyway, sleepies for me :) g'night all
[13:39:12] <sbx> g'night Wumpus
[13:39:18] <Colourless> cta
[13:39:19] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("zzzzzz at last :P")
[13:39:19] <Colourless> cya
[13:39:54] <wjp> sbx: yeah :-)
[13:40:21] <sbx> so 829 gets called with the itemref so it knows whether it is working with a lowered or raised gangplank?
[13:40:23] * wjp isn't really familiar with how to use the word 'gangplank' :-)
[13:40:40] * sbx is guessing.
[13:40:56] <wjp> that, and since it needs to know where it is
[13:41:54] <wjp> (which is why the first couple of intrinsic calls in 0x829 are 'get_item_shape', 'get_item_frame' and 'get_object_position'
[13:41:56] <wjp> )
[13:42:33] <sbx> ok good good...
[13:42:36] * wjp notices that 0x829 actually lowers or raises the gangplank too
[13:43:49] <sbx> yeah, are other object shapes like the gangplanks? as in, is the actual object usecode function usually a wrapper to more complex code?
[13:44:20] <sbx> or is the gangplank an exception
[13:45:38] * Darke is pretty sure gangplank is not just an exception.
[13:46:09] <wjp> just count the number of usecode functions and compare it to the number of objects :-)
[13:46:43] * sbx is pretty sure if he counts them, Darke will be proven correct.
[13:46:49] <Darke> And a lot of the objects don't actually have functions attached to them either.
[13:46:50] <Colourless> not all objects have functions though
[13:47:07] <sbx> and that is what causes those "error" messages in stdout
[13:47:18] <sbx> or wherever it goes
[13:47:26] * wjp nods
[13:47:34] <sbx> this is all very fascinating :-)
[13:48:22] * sbx has written some C code 'gangplank_lowered.ucc' with his own style and wants to know if it is similiar to eventual output of ucxt/input of ucc.
[13:48:36] <wjp> object usecode functions end at line ~25000 of the disassembly (BG)
[13:48:55] <wjp> and there's a total of ~200000 lines
[13:50:02] <Darke> sbx: Scarily enough that's how I started 'learning' usecode as well. <grin> What's it look like?
[13:50:03] <wjp> ...also, conversations seem to take up lines 25000-132000
[13:51:40] <sbx> tiny percentage
[13:52:41] <sbx> anyway can i paste 33 lines in here?
[13:52:51] <sbx> \slowly\
[13:53:16] <Darke> You should be able to, is this function 0x96?
[13:53:26] <wjp> 33? that's longer than the disassembled version :-)
[13:53:35] <sbx> yes, i converted it from -fa output
[13:53:41] <Darke> wjp: I'm guessing whitespace. <grin>
[13:53:46] <sbx> tell me if this is anything like it would be...
[13:53:54] <sbx> (+comments at top)
[13:54:32] <sbx> /* gangplank_lowered.ucc
[13:54:38] <sbx> * Gangplank for a large ocean-going vessel. It can be raised or lowered.
[13:54:42] <sbx> * When it is in the lowered position, it serves as a walkway between the ship
[13:54:48] <sbx> * and the dock/ground.
[13:54:51] <sbx> *
[13:54:56] <sbx> * Ultima VII: The Black Gate
[13:55:02] <sbx> */
[13:55:07] <sbx> #include "blackgate.h"
[13:55:11] <sbx> #include "blackgate_intrinsics.h"
[13:55:15] <sbx>
[13:55:20] <sbx> void gangplank()
[13:55:25] <sbx> {
[13:55:30] <sbx> if(eventid != EVENT_DOUBLECLICK)
[13:55:33] <sbx> return();
[13:55:36] <sbx>
[13:55:42] <sbx> if(!get_item_flag(itemref, OBJECT_GANGPLANK_DOWN))
[13:55:45] <sbx> {
[13:55:50] <sbx> if(gangplank_action(itemref))
[13:55:57] <sbx> {
[13:56:03] <sbx> if(!in_gump_mode())
[13:56:07] <sbx> return();
[13:56:11] <sbx> close_gumps();
[13:56:15] <sbx> }
[13:56:19] <sbx> else
[13:56:25] <sbx> party_say("I think the gangplank is blocked.");
[13:56:29] <sbx>
[13:56:33] <sbx> return();
[13:56:38] <sbx> }
[13:56:40] <sbx>
[13:56:46] <sbx> party_say("The sails must be furled before the planks are raised.");
[13:56:52] <sbx> return();
[13:56:56] <sbx> }
[13:57:09] <sbx> eek.. the indentation didnt go in properly
[13:57:14] <sbx> oh well
[13:57:21] <Darke> Hopefully something similar. <grin>
[13:57:27] <sbx> just a little test :-)
[13:58:23] <Darke> <grin> Now I challenge you to do the same thing with 402. <innocentwiggle>
[13:59:29] <wjp> heh, Spark's conversation
[13:59:46] <wjp> should be... interesting
[13:59:48] <sbx> erm
[14:00:09] <sbx> can i just reintroduce the sparkly ass bug instead?
[14:00:14] <sbx> :P
[14:00:21] * wjp slaps sbx around with a large trout
[14:00:32] * wjp hands the trout to exultbot
[14:00:46] * exultbot slaps sbx around with a large trout some more
[14:00:57] <sbx> ouch
[14:01:22] <sbx> ok better idea, just remove spark from U7 altogether
[14:01:28] <sbx> solved many problems
[14:01:43] <sbx> s/solved/solves
[14:01:55] * Darke considers removing U7 would also solve many problems. <grin>
[14:06:18] <sbx> -fs output has something like C++ methods
[14:06:25] <sbx> will -fz look like C++?
[14:07:13] <Darke> Not really. It'll look similar to the usecode.uc file in Jeff's patch.
[14:07:30] <sbx> where can i find that?
[14:07:52] <Darke> IIRC it was on the exult download site.
[14:07:58] <sbx> *was*
[14:08:07] <Colourless> still is
[14:08:12] <sbx> *is*
[14:08:15] <sbx> ok :-)
[14:08:36] * Darke doesn't know. <grin> He doesn't get out much.
[14:08:58] * sbx can't find the link. Someone help the stupid newbie out.
[14:11:36] <Darke> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2335&release_id=63316 Exult studio demo patch1
[14:11:57] <Darke> (or patch 2, one of those two. <grin>)
[14:12:41] * sbx , the stupid newbie, finds his way thanks to Darke.
[14:17:47] <sbx> hrmm
[14:18:00] <sbx> it is OK
[14:18:03] <sbx> i mean
[14:18:12] * sbx worships the greatness of J. Freedman. :-)
[14:19:23] * sbx will install the patch so he can kneel before Dr. Code.
[14:19:23] <sbx> brb
[14:28:14] <sbx> maybe i installed it wrong
[14:29:12] <sbx> does <patch></patch> still work?
[14:29:26] <wjp> yeah
[14:29:47] <wjp> it needs to be in the blackgate section of exult.cfg
[14:30:03] <wjp> ...and should point to the path where you put the patch files
[14:38:36] <wjp> could you open all the chests in the treasure room of Shamino's castle?
[14:42:23] <wjp> (by breaking them, I mean)
[14:43:14] <Colourless> the patch wont actually work though btw
[14:43:54] <wjp> not entirely, no
[14:44:56] <wjp> talking to someone there will most likely cause an infinite loop
[14:45:30] <sbx> heh i figured that out :-)
[14:45:41] <sbx> original problem was that i was Journey'ing Onward tho
[14:45:58] <sbx> but now im just looking at the usecode
[14:46:02] <sbx> since it locks up
[14:48:26] <sbx> heh Dominik
[14:48:44] <sbx> at least DrCode has a friend there
[14:52:46] * sbx must sleep now.
[14:52:48] <sbx> ?date
[14:52:48] <exultbot> It is now Sun Dec 2 14:52:48 2001 (GMT).
[14:53:04] <sbx> Good afternoon!
[14:53:05] <-- sbx has left IRC ("Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say...")
[14:53:24] <wjp> :-)
[14:53:47] <Colourless> ?bye
[14:53:47] <exultbot> Goodbye, Avatar.
[14:53:59] <Colourless> not good enough wjp :-)
[14:54:17] * wjp is open to suggestions
[14:54:18] <Colourless> of course that works :-)
[14:54:33] <Colourless> seemed like it wasn't doing anything for a moment there
[14:54:54] <Colourless> so what are all the words that exultbot responds to
[14:55:39] <wjp> hi, hello, hey, wassup, bye, goodbye, cya, see you later, how are you?, what's your status?
[14:55:53] <wjp> version, exultbot, url, homepage, faq, snapshot, exult, ultima, log
[14:56:02] <wjp> logs, name, job, bye, join
[14:56:12] <wjp> seen
[14:56:29] * wjp wonders if he missed any
[14:57:42] <wjp> oh, and help
[14:58:36] <Colourless> ?exultbot
[14:58:36] <exultbot> Exultbot is written in Perl by Willem Jan Palenstijn.
[14:58:53] <Colourless> ?how are you?
[14:59:10] <Darke> exultbot: how are you?
[14:59:10] <exultbot> buggy
[14:59:22] <Colourless> heh
[14:59:53] <Colourless> ?join
[14:59:53] <exultbot> I would be honored to join thee, Avatar, but I'm already in #exult's party.
[15:00:09] <wjp> eek... s/honor/honour/
[15:13:04] --> Dominus|dinner has joined #exult
[15:13:41] --- Dominus|dinner is now known as Dominus
[15:13:52] * Darke bows. "Hello."
[15:13:53] <wjp> hi
[15:14:11] <Dominus> hi
[15:14:36] <Dominus> damn, I missed sbx
[15:15:32] <Dominus> he complained that one of my sfx was wrong in SI, but that is aknown bug with us handling the SI-weapons.dat :-)
[15:16:11] <Colourless> hi
[15:16:50] * Dominus found that the ops of #exult can't count
[15:17:14] <Dominus> 12:46:18] <Colourless> *sigh* from the gaminggroove website about Exult beta: If the link doesn't work right away keep trying (it took me 3 tries to get to the download page).
[15:17:27] <Dominus> 12:48:34] <wjp> we're also on RPGPlanet & gamespydaily
[15:17:27] <Dominus> [12:48:55] <wjp> those don't report any problems, though
[15:17:27] <Dominus> [12:49:24] <Colourless> ve3d didn't report problems either
[15:17:27] <Dominus> [12:49:32] <Darke> I saw it on linuxgames.com as well. No problems again.
[15:17:27] <Dominus> [12:49:49] <wjp> sheesh, how many gaming sites report exult news? :-)
[15:17:28] <Dominus> [12:50:29] <Colourless> well, that's 4 :-)
[15:17:35] <wjp> yes, 5, I know :-)
[15:18:10] <Dominus> he he
[15:18:17] <wjp> s/the ops of #exult/Colourless/ ;-)
[15:18:42] <wjp> although you might argue that gamespydaily doesn't count because they reported it from RPGPlanet
[15:18:54] * Colourless wonders which of the sites he didn't count
[15:19:21] * Dominus wonders if Colourless still remembers
[15:22:10] * Dominus wonders where all those bugs come from - he didn't even play any of the U7 games in weeks
[15:22:39] <wjp> hey, there's more 'nobody's than 'dominus's in there
[15:22:45] <wjp> wow
[15:23:38] <Dominus> hm, but nobodys seem to be very lax with the "send savegame" rule
[15:24:08] <wjp> I still wonder if nobodies can even attach savegames
[15:24:22] * Dominus wonders if people don't see the checkbox "Check to Upload & Attach File:"
[15:26:47] <Dominus> well, I just did a "nobody" bug report and could attach a savegame
[15:27:41] <wjp> yeah, works
[15:28:11] <Dominus> I'm pretty sure people forget to check the box
[15:28:32] <wjp> maybe we should start another "Bug Submitting 101" thread on the forum
[15:28:45] * Dominus nods
[15:28:47] <Colourless> yeah
[15:28:59] <Colourless> maybe include screenshots
[15:29:06] <wjp> heh :-)
[15:29:13] <Dominus> and I should update the FAQ with "please check the box ...bla bla..."
[15:29:22] <wjp> with a big red circle around the checkbox :-)
[15:29:48] <Dominus> Can't we do a "keep on top" in Phorum?
[15:29:57] <Dominus> and "close thread"
[15:30:02] <wjp> I was just wondering about those too
[15:30:20] <wjp> there are several candidates for the 'close thread' function :-)
[15:30:33] <Dominus> yeah
[15:32:45] <Colourless> a lock thread function would be nice
[15:33:21] <Dominus> I wouldn't want to delete certain threads but locking them would be nice
[15:33:26] <wjp> I don't think that would be too hard to implement
[15:33:38] <Dominus> and I can't belive Phorum doesn't have this
[15:48:25] <-- Darke has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[15:51:04] --> Darke has joined #exult
[15:52:08] * Darke ReHi's.
[15:52:37] <Dominus> Yo, hi
[16:27:54] * wjp sighs at the phorum code again
[16:28:11] <wjp> how badly do we want frozen threads? ;-)
[16:28:34] <Dominus> :-)
[16:57:54] * Dominus has been on the phone for a while :-)
[16:58:21] <Dominus> well, frozen threads would be nice but not worth the hassle I guess
[16:58:58] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[16:58:58] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[16:59:18] <Dominus> hi Fingolfin
[16:59:22] <Colourless> hi
[16:59:22] <Fingolfin> hi
[16:59:53] <Dominus> a thread in the Forum for you Fingolfin: http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=1461&t=1461
[17:00:19] <wjp> heh, you beat me to it :-)
[17:00:22] <Darke> Hi Fingolfin.
[17:01:37] <Dominus> he he
[17:01:37] <Dominus> I saw Fingolfin entering and thought there was something I wanted to point out to him
[17:03:05] <Dominus> A deduction on our files tracker on SF: we have about 10.000 users of which only 6.000 own/play SI (based on the soundpack downloads) :-)
[17:04:02] <Dominus> though I don't know how download accelearators are managed which connect multiple times to download a file
[17:05:25] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:06:08] <Dominus> Fingolfin: how do you like "Enterprise"? (I have watched the last 11 eps - the truck passed by me in Vienna as well :-))
[17:07:59] <Fingolfin> I only saw the pilot so far, and the first half of ep 9 "Civilisation", and I liked it. Not awesome great, but nice, and definitly way better than Voyager
[17:08:02] <Fingolfin> not as if that was hard =)
[17:08:14] <Dominus> :-9
[17:08:15] <Dominus> :-)
[17:08:44] * Fingolfin has to do some admin work now, expect response latencies even worse than normal
[17:08:55] <Dominus> I thought Voyager was nice but I was very disappointed at the seires finale (kind of like Ultima 9)
[17:09:14] <Dominus> Yeah, Enterprise is nice too watch
[17:09:26] <Dominus> don't worry about latency .-)
[17:11:11] <-- Darke has left IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
[17:14:20] <Fingolfin> I found a few episodes in Voyager nice, but overall I found it crappy; viewed as a scifi series; viewed as Star Trek , it is *horrid* shit
[17:14:20] <Fingolfin> like, their dealings with Borg
[17:15:00] <Fingolfin> the Borg used to be strong and merciless, and very adaptive. In Voyager, I think even a couple of ferengi are more agressive and clever
[17:15:16] <Fingolfin> I mean, in war terms
[17:15:33] <Fingolfin> Ferengi can be very clever and agressive when it comes to business deals, of course =)
[17:15:51] <Dominus> aargh, but their the movie went wrong as well (1st contact) - it kind of killed everything with the queen
[17:16:01] * Dominus is on the phone
[17:16:35] <Fingolfin> also, Janeway should be a *Star Fleet Captain*, right` So why is she often not behaving like one, but like a "caring mom"? There are too many examples which would prevent any normaly human being to ascend over the ranks of lieutanant :)
[17:16:45] <Fingolfin> Dominus: of course
[17:17:01] <Colourless> janeway was a bad captain
[17:17:05] <Fingolfin> but in TNG, it was *tough* to even defeat a single borg cube
[17:17:23] <Fingolfin> in Voager, they destroy a couple of them every other week, with not much more than a yawn
[17:17:29] <Fingolfin> well, of course some consoles always explode =)
[17:17:48] * Fingolfin wonders how they still haven't found out how to build Consoles w/o using any explosives =)
[17:17:54] <Fingolfin> Colourless: exact
[17:18:08] <Colourless> heh, yeah, you've got to wonder about those consoles
[17:18:21] <Fingolfin> and don't get me wrong, I am not a sexist or so, I think woman can make fine captains, but janweay just wasn't one
[17:35:25] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:58:21] <-- Fingolfin has left #exult ("Client Exiting")
[18:29:13] <Dominus> hehe, back from the phone but Max is gone now :-(
[18:50:11] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[18:50:11] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[18:50:19] <Fingolfin> re
[18:50:30] <Colourless> wb
[18:51:28] <Dominus> hi
[18:53:25] <Dominus> somehow it seems the beta is making problems for a lot of people :-(
[18:54:38] <Dominus> Fingolfin: another one for you: http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=1405&t=1405
[18:55:17] <Fingolfin> 'k
[18:56:37] <Fingolfin> hm, hm hm
[18:56:46] * Fingolfin goes delete his gamedat folder to see what's happening
[18:57:52] <Fingolfin> ARGH
[18:57:55] <Fingolfin> also crashes for me
[18:57:56] <Fingolfin> weirdo!
[18:58:13] <Dominus> hm, gamedat doesn't get created?
[18:59:16] <Fingolfin> gamedat/gamewin.dat is not being created
[18:59:24] <Fingolfin> hey, could you try for me what happens for you if you delete that file?
[18:59:25] <wjp> it works here, btw
[18:59:29] <Fingolfin> ah
[18:59:33] <Fingolfin> that's what I wanted to know
[18:59:50] <wjp> (I deleted my entire gamedat folder and started a new game -> ok)
[18:59:54] <Fingolfin> hm... weird, esp. since OS X is a unix, so the file I/O stuff should be the same as on Linux...
[19:00:06] <wjp> ..."should" being the keyword
[19:00:11] <Fingolfin> I deleted the entire gamedat folder, and starte a new game -> not OK...
[19:00:15] <Fingolfin> yeah =)
[19:00:17] <Fingolfin> of course :)
[19:00:31] * wjp remembers something about trailing slashes :-)
[19:00:34] <Fingolfin> is there a command in gdb to break upong a C++ excpetion?
[19:00:40] <Fingolfin> ...
[19:00:43] <Fingolfin> ........
[19:00:53] <wjp> hmm, dunno
[19:01:31] <wjp> "catch throw"
[19:01:37] <Fingolfin> I thought I fixed mkdir, but good point, lemme check
[19:02:12] <Fingolfin> I can break on U7mkdir I guess
[19:03:13] <wjp> hmm, 'catch throw' doesn't work here
[19:03:17] <Fingolfin> (gdb) b U7mkdir
[19:03:17] <Fingolfin> Function "U7mkdir" not defined.
[19:03:18] <Fingolfin> =)
[19:03:24] <wjp> 'break __throw' does seem to do the trick, though
[19:03:58] * Fingolfin reverts to classic debug tools
[19:06:39] <Fingolfin> wtf ?!?
[19:07:12] <Dominus> btw, no crash for me when talking to Finnigan (mayor of Trinsic, when reporting)
[19:10:00] <Fingolfin> btw, I just noticed this:
[19:10:16] <Fingolfin> unzip.c: In function `unzlocal_GetCurrentFileInfoInternal':
[19:10:16] <Fingolfin> unzip.c:523: warning: suggest explicit braces to avoid ambiguous `else'
[19:10:16] <Fingolfin> unzip.c:603: warning: suggest explicit braces to avoid ambiguous `else'
[19:10:17] <Fingolfin> etc.
[19:10:20] <Fingolfin> maybe we should fix this
[19:12:44] * Fingolfin stares at the compile error he suddenly gets in utils.cc (from CVS!)... weird
[19:15:05] <wjp> ?
[19:16:16] <wjp> did anything change in that file since beta?
[19:16:26] <wjp> hmm, no
[19:16:43] <Fingolfin> config.h is the source of my problems... hm
[19:18:26] --> rovragge has joined #exult
[19:18:34] <Fingolfin> no, it's not. the thing is, the compiler errors are completely bogus
[19:18:47] <wjp> 'make clean all'?
[19:18:48] <rovragge> gameplay question: hints on isle of fire, quest of courage?
[19:20:10] <Fingolfin> wjp: the problem was this line: cout << "After suffix fix" << endl;
[19:20:36] <Fingolfin> the error messages where in utils.cc:27, deep in a system header file... when the real error was in line 424...
[19:20:46] <Fingolfin> I am used to errors *after* the real error, but way before?!? :)
[19:28:01] * wjp doesn't see a 'cout << "After suffix fix" << endl;' line
[19:28:45] <wjp> btw, shouldn't there be an endl after the "creating dir: ...." cerr?
[19:34:13] <Colourless> they probably should be
[19:35:20] <Dominus> rovragge: see the FAQ for some links to gameplay questions and walkthroughs/hints
[19:35:53] <Fingolfin> wjp: yeah sure
[19:37:46] <Fingolfin> btw, mkdir is just fine, the directory is created, just not gamewin.dta
[19:37:49] <Fingolfin> .dat even
[19:39:49] <Dominus> I'm closing this bug: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=487995&group_id=2335&atid=102335 - he cheated past the copyright answers and expects the game to work properly
[19:41:02] <Dominus> everybody okay with that?
[19:42:07] <rovragge> disabling and reenabling audio stops audio for me
[19:42:30] <Fingolfin> Dominus: fine
[19:46:27] <Dominus> rovragge: if you mean the music stops - that is perfectly fine. The music is triggered by eggs and you have to pass a music egg to have music again
[19:47:11] <Dominus> Fingolfin: actually I just checked and even when doing it right Surtok still appears as towns guard (Surtok is the healer in Silver Seed)
[19:47:46] <rovragge> Dominus: i played for such a long time, and isnt combat a music egg?
[19:47:47] <Colourless> it's because we don't handle guards in si properly yet
[19:48:10] <Colourless> rocragge: no it's not
[19:48:40] <Dominus> Colourless: should I do a proper bug report then or not (I thought this bug sounds familiar)
[19:49:27] <Colourless> it's up to you. i've got to be going now
[19:49:39] <Dominus> okay, sleep well :-)
[19:49:45] <rovragge> Dominus: i passed what I think are eggs, at least restarting exult gave sound back. and sound effects were also not heard.
[19:50:15] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("time to sleep")
[19:50:21] <Dominus> for sfx did you read the docs and downloaded the sfx packs
[19:50:22] <Dominus> ?
[19:50:55] <rovragge> I have had proper sound for a long time, just that disabling sound and reenabling it in-game, does not turn sound back on, it's still disabled
[19:51:33] <Dominus> what OS? And sound card?
[19:52:00] <rovragge> eh, again, was not reproducable. linux. must be my sound driver, since it works now
[19:52:52] <Dominus> yeah, I just checked and it works on my system just as it should :-)
[19:52:55] <rovragge> I think another application tried to play sound while exult was running or something
[19:53:05] <rovragge> my sound driver dislikes that
[19:53:41] * Dominus nods there could always be a problem with something like that
[20:02:51] <Dominus> wow, that crash with isle of fire is really there
[20:04:24] <Dominus> it crashes after saving npc.dat
[20:04:33] <Dominus> al following infos are not saved
[20:04:43] <Dominus> wjp, Fingolfin: you read thatß
[20:04:46] <Dominus> ?
[20:12:22] <Fingolfin> interesting: I put in some cout's, it still doesn't create gamewin.dat, but now it can start a game......
[20:17:05] * Fingolfin is confused
[20:18:56] <Dominus> me too
[20:22:06] <Dominus> argh, now I tried to reproduce this bug but it didn't crash this time but I was extensively saving on the way there (isle of fire)
[20:23:25] <Fingolfin> hm
[20:23:28] <Fingolfin> weird, too
[20:29:31] <Dominus> I'll attach a savegame when you are on the boat in Vesper and if you travel to the isle of fire, passing it on the west side, sailing close to the isle, without saving, it will eventually crash after you land there.
[20:32:34] <Dominus> this one is actually really bad, as it crashes while saving npc.dat and it isn't as big as it should be at this point (about 37 KB instead of 47)
[20:33:07] <wjp> might be good... finding bugs in saving NPCs might help find that duplication bug
[20:33:34] <Dominus> my though tas well, attaching the savegame right now (along with error logs
[20:36:13] <Fingolfin> I think this gamewin.dat bug is a bug in the runtime lib or so... or in the compiler
[20:36:25] <Dominus> attached savegame
[20:36:42] <Fingolfin> I.e. if I add a single line to the very start of read_gwin (in gamewin.cc) it works fine
[20:36:55] <Fingolfin> and the line is...
[20:36:57] <Fingolfin> cerr << "Game_window::read_gwin (" << GWINDAT << ")" << endl;
[20:37:07] <Fingolfin> no idea why it would make a change, but it does :)
[20:37:33] <wjp> that would be either memory corruption or a runtime/compiler bug, yes
[20:37:54] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
[20:38:04] <Fingolfin|dinner> it is weird, but first i need some food
[20:38:35] <wjp> so... what should I do from this savegame?
[20:39:15] <Dominus> travel to isle of fire, passing it west, travelling close by the isle, land there, go on land, save
[20:39:40] <rovragge> eh, quest of courage completed, but north of the dragon screen just turns black and nothing happens
[20:39:49] * Dominus thinks that perhaps by travelling close by it it triggers something
[20:39:50] <rovragge> Und sched. opcode 0x2c
[20:39:58] <rovragge> ireg object
[20:40:39] <Dominus> rovragge: if you followed the last conversation you see that there might be something going wrong on isle of fire
[20:41:10] <wjp> quicksave or real save?
[20:41:49] <wjp> do you still have that broken npc.dat?
[20:42:39] <rovragge> what does these mean: "Und sched. opcode 0x00"
[20:42:42] <Dominus> wjp: doesn't matter which kind of save
[20:42:54] <Dominus> but I just reloaded and tried the gems bug
[20:42:57] <rovragge> and "Und sched. opcode 0x2c"
[20:43:00] <Dominus> but I can reproduce
[20:43:49] <wjp> did you land close to or far from the fortress?
[20:44:02] <wjp> (west, east or north?)
[20:45:04] <wjp> rovragge: north of the dragon, there's a blue moongate, right?
[20:45:13] <rovragge> yes. screen turns black.
[20:45:17] <Dominus> east, near, but below the moongate
[20:45:19] <rovragge> game is still active
[20:45:28] <Dominus> got the corrupted npc.dat now
[20:45:34] <Dominus> dcc?
[20:45:50] <wjp> Dominus: sure
[20:45:58] <wjp> rovragge: do things like escape and 's' still work?
[20:46:23] <rovragge> wjp: ehh... now I was teleported correctly..
[20:47:03] <Dominus> wjp: you got it?
[20:47:03] <wjp> heh, file is called "Dominus.F:\Temp\npc.dat" here now :-)
[20:47:19] <Dominus> oops
[20:47:30] <Dominus> Trillian has problems with dcc
[20:47:39] <Dominus> but is it there? 37 KB?
[20:47:42] <wjp> rovragge: did you do anything or did it suddenly work?
[20:47:45] <wjp> Dominus: yeah, I got it
[20:47:54] <wjp> 58bfb3f079a973fc75ac7179d95ccba9 npc.dat
[20:47:59] <wjp> if you want to check the md5sum ;-)
[20:48:17] <rovragge> wjp: reloaded from a savegame, where before, i got 'black screen' with game still active, twice in a row
[20:48:55] <rovragge> wjp: the third reload, when you asked me to check if 's' worked, I got to the correct location.
[20:49:05] <Dominus> wjp: I don't know how to generate a checksum anyway :-)
[20:49:09] <wjp> how did you reload? quit the game and restart?
[20:49:32] <rovragge> wjp: no just load a savegame. a non-quicksave one
[20:49:50] <wjp> rovragge: so you could still load after you were teleported?
[20:50:20] <rovragge> wjp: I could not see menus or anything, but Ctrl-R worked
[20:50:46] <wjp> hmm, maybe it was stuck in a faded palette or something
[20:51:18] <wjp> could you submit this as a bug with an attached savegame?
[20:51:27] <wjp> http://sf.net/bugs/?group_id=2335
[20:54:44] * wjp tries to figure out npc.dat
[20:56:36] <Dominus> hm, just comparing a valid one and a wrong one it seems it gets cut off at "one eyed Marl" (some lines below that) in between there is nothing much different about them
[20:56:38] <Dominus> )
[20:57:19] <Dominus> (the valid one I made by just teleporting to the isle and saving)
[21:00:46] <wjp> it seems to be cut off in the middle of his inventory
[21:00:48] <rovragge> wjp: hrm.. bug does not occur again.. sorry.. but It was as I described. Still want it?
[21:01:05] <wjp> how many times did it happen?
[21:01:11] <Dominus> and just testing it again, I was able to verify it has something to do with triggering something by travelling too close by the island. When I passed it and made sure I never got into the "still" water close to it, it didn't crash at saving
[21:01:13] <rovragge> wjp: 2 times
[21:01:42] <wjp> hmm
[21:02:03] <wjp> tough call... :-)
[21:02:09] <Dominus> wjp: I#ll try finishing the game with an okay save now or later to see if I see an error there as well (test of courage)
[21:02:30] <rovragge> wjp: could it be that saving the game before entering the moongate somehow changed game state when restoring to that point?
[21:02:53] <wjp> yeah, could be
[21:03:06] <rovragge> ehrm, what I mean is that it was probably only when restoring to the quicksave it happened on second thought
[21:04:28] * wjp looks surprised... there's a drake hidden in the edge of the island
[21:04:51] <Dominus> wjp: don't know if that is related I compared the error logs and there are some "running usecodes" that might be it:
[21:05:15] <Dominus> running usecode 0634 (0000) with event 1
[21:05:31] <rovragge> wjp: which file is the quicksave file?
[21:05:50] <Dominus> running usecode 080c (061baf68) with event 1
[21:05:57] <wjp> there's no quicksave file
[21:06:10] <wjp> quicksave just writes the game to the gamedat dir.
[21:06:11] <Dominus> ...back into usecode 0634
[21:06:33] <Dominus> returning from usecode 0634
[21:06:38] <rovragge> ok, when I restore to my current quicksave, the bug occurs again.
[21:07:07] <Dominus> and i got a reaper looking for a foe
[21:08:06] <rovragge> wjp: about once in 10 times
[21:08:22] <Dominus> and a lot of other running usecodes...
[21:09:40] <wjp> can you try pressing Alt-I when it happens?
[21:11:03] <wjp> ok... I got it too just now
[21:11:11] <rovragge> phew
[21:11:15] * wjp must have walked through that thing at least 30 times
[21:11:29] <Dominus> wjp: the dragon teleporter bug?
[21:11:31] <rovragge> alt-i gives nothing for mew
[21:11:33] <wjp> it seems to be a case of a stuck palette
[21:11:35] <wjp> F2?
[21:11:42] <rovragge> yes works
[21:12:04] <rovragge> want any info from that screen?
[21:12:18] <wjp> nah, that was just to reset the palette :-)
[21:12:36] <rovragge> yes, that was it
[21:15:36] <wjp> ok, I've submitted a bug report
[21:17:56] <rovragge> is the "scroll of infinity" really written in such pseudo-code?
[21:18:15] <wjp> what do you mean?
[21:18:36] <rovragge> if Locale(Artifact) is Void
[21:19:20] <wjp> yeah, it seems to pretend to be pseudo-code
[21:19:40] <wjp> brb
[21:24:11] <wjp> grrr... I teleported halfway across the edge of the isle and still no crash
[21:24:24] * wjp kicks the isle of fire
[21:25:34] <Dominus> mhm, did you try sailing to it? first straight down then close to it (really close) going round it on the west side, then landing on the east side of the bay
[21:25:49] <wjp> yeah, tried that once too
[21:26:12] <Dominus> I really can reproduce it every time I do it like that
[21:28:22] <wjp> could you take a look at NPC 281 in the F2 screen right before saving?
[21:28:44] <Dominus> yeah, a moment, I first have to reproduce it again
[21:31:15] <Dominus> wjp: instant crash
[21:31:46] <wjp> still no crashes here :-(
[21:31:52] <Dominus> last stdout: Running usecode 06fb (0000) with event 3
[21:31:57] <Dominus> RETurning from usecode 06fb
[21:32:17] <wjp> as soon as you hit 281<enter> it crashed?
[21:32:32] <Dominus> hm, do you run the beta1 or the modified one (I read you fixed an infinite loop bug)
[21:32:36] <Dominus> wjp: right
[21:32:49] <wjp> I have several bugfixes here, yes
[21:33:11] <Dominus> maybe you fixed it already unwillingly :-)
[21:33:22] <wjp> hmm... there's one thing that could be it
[21:34:00] <wjp> (the infinite loop was just some tweaks to the conversation-related usecode opcode, btw)
[21:34:10] <Dominus> okay
[21:34:35] <Dominus> I'll try another approach
[21:34:43] * wjp undoes one actor-related fix
[21:37:12] <wjp> ah ha!
[21:37:19] <wjp> how interesting
[21:37:22] <Dominus> ?
[21:37:27] <wjp> crashed
[21:37:35] <Dominus> hooray
[21:37:45] * Dominus takes out the cake and the beer
[21:37:46] <wjp> ...which means that NPC 281 was deleted somewhere, somehow
[21:38:01] <wjp> (the fix I had here was that NPC's were _never_ really deleted)
[21:38:10] <wjp> question remains... why would it be deleted
[21:38:11] <wjp> ?
[21:38:47] <Dominus> I tried with frequently saving while sailing around and it never crashed, only when I landed
[21:40:12] * wjp puts a breakpoint on deleting NPCs
[21:42:08] <wjp> ok... got it
[21:42:38] <rovragge> getting the talisman of infinity, I have lenses, talismans and there are already lit torches... am I doing something wrong?
[21:43:05] <wjp> I really can't remember
[21:44:16] <wjp> how peculiar... there's this egg here that deletes all drakes and sheep near the avatar?!
[21:44:55] <Dominus> wjp: next try, I' saved just before landing, no problem, then I only doubleclicked the sail to land, saved again and it crashed :-)
[21:45:27] <wjp> this is a memory corruption issue. Strange things have been known to happen then :-)
[21:46:07] <Dominus> rovragge: blue lens to the right, pink to the left
[21:46:22] <wjp> specifically, when NPC 281 is deleted, its memory still holds the correct information. Only when something else overwrites that piece of memory it will go wrong
[21:47:11] <Dominus> rovragge: all five torches burning?
[21:48:46] <Dominus> rovragge: enable eggs (press e) and make sure that the lenses are on top of the eggs, left and right of the ... (what's its name?). Place the talismans on top of the ...
[21:49:00] <rovragge> dropping a talisman at the wrong spot sometimes make them disappear
[21:49:01] <wjp> dark core
[21:49:01] <Dominus> wjp: so let's consider this fixed?
[21:49:07] <Dominus> ah thanks
[21:49:13] <wjp> Dominus: lets :-)
[21:49:19] <wjp> I'll close it
[21:49:54] <Dominus> okay, now if we only knew how Jeff wants to proceed :-)
[21:50:44] <wjp> this is really strange, though. Probably a result of some deep subtle difference between the way we manage objects and the way the original did things
[21:51:02] <wjp> apparently the original did allow deleting NPCs
[21:51:19] <Dominus> strange
[21:51:55] <wjp> or maybe they special-cased it just like we do... hmm
[21:51:56] <wjp> ah well
[21:52:41] <wjp> funny... I never imagined that that fix would actually fix something not caused by cheating
[21:52:54] <Dominus> he he
[21:53:17] <wjp> it was originally meant to prevent the crash caused by saving after Ctrl-D-ing someone
[21:53:53] <Dominus> do you think that could have caused all the other problems (corrupted savegames).I seem to remember that some of those guys having those have visited the isle of fire
[21:54:09] <wjp> it's not impossible I guess
[21:54:57] <rovragge> Dominus: eggs did help a bit, but nothing happens
[21:55:04] <rovragge> all five torches lit
[21:56:31] <Dominus> did you read the scroll "talsman of infinity" in the mages room?
[21:56:36] <rovragge> yes
[21:56:45] <rovragge> and spoke to the demon sword about it
[21:56:51] <Dominus> talked to both the mage and your sword?
[21:57:20] <rovragge> i have trouble dropping the talismans in place
[21:57:30] <rovragge> they seem to align behind the core or 'disappear'
[21:58:22] <Dominus> that's the hard part. they have to be on it! the original res, fullscreen might help (320x200)
[21:58:45] <rovragge> have no fullscreen, but use original res
[21:59:21] * wjp has no problems with putting them on it
[22:00:01] <Dominus> then lower the res of your monitor to better be able to place it
[22:00:01] <Dominus> enable ggs helps there too, I think
[22:00:02] <Dominus> eggs, I mean
[22:00:14] <wjp> summoning talisman works too
[22:00:16] * Dominus remembers having problems but then Dominus plays on higher res
[22:00:28] <rovragge> can't lower res with ctrl-alt-+ (stupid ati driver)
[22:01:06] <Dominus> well, I can't believe you have no way to lower res of your monitor somehow in you OS
[22:01:19] <Dominus> your OS
[22:01:34] <rovragge> I have, but its tedious
[22:01:40] <wjp> ?
[22:01:57] <Dominus> ok, another way, change scaler to point and edit the exult.cfg to use scaler 4
[22:02:32] <wjp> you should just be able to add a lower res to your XF86Config, and then switch to it using Ctrl-Alt-+/-
[22:02:43] <rovragge> yes, I know
[22:02:55] <rovragge> it's just that I have to restart X now
[22:03:23] <-- rovragge has left IRC ("\0")
[22:04:39] <Dominus> I really wonder why mostly Windows user can't be bothered to read documentation. If I were studying Psychology or sth like that I would do a study on this
[22:05:24] <Dominus> concerning the thread wjp and me answered to on the Phroum
[22:05:52] <wjp> "please help a newb..." ?
[22:06:21] <Dominus> yeah
[22:06:38] <wjp> it's always nice that they seem to expect us to know exactly what the details of the problem are, too
[22:07:16] <Dominus> in this case the guy didn't even bother to read what the installer by colourless said (it specifcally asks for the path to SI)
[22:07:22] <wjp> (ie. it only shows a BG option, there's an SI option, but it doesn't work, etc...)
[22:07:30] <wjp> yeah
[22:07:46] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[22:08:01] <Fingolfin> Dominus: this is not at all limited to windows users
[22:08:01] <Fingolfin> and no, my dinner was not that long :)
[22:08:05] <Fingolfin> I was baking cookies (chrrrristmas time :)
[22:08:24] * Dominus wonders if Fingolfin ate a whole cow, judging he was gone for 1 and a half hour
[22:08:28] <wjp> I was kind of feeling like making some sarcastic comment like "this is answered in the docs. What a coincidence that you have just missed this one section while reading it"
[22:08:31] <Dominus> damn, you beat me to it
[22:09:30] <Dominus> wjp: I'm really thinking of only replying "FAQ/DOCs"
[22:09:40] <Dominus> and not saying anything else anymore
[22:09:55] <Dominus> but then I'm most of the times in too good a mood
[22:10:28] <wjp> how about adding a "canned reply" option in phorum like in the bug tracker?
[22:11:02] <Dominus> might be nice
[22:11:28] <Fingolfin> yeah
[22:11:38] <Dominus> and what I think of is really putting a page on our web with screenshots on how to do a proper bug report on SF
[22:11:50] <Fingolfin> Dominus: hey, you should have read what I wrote before writing comments about cows :)
[22:11:56] <Fingolfin> he :)
[22:11:59] <Fingolfin> Dominus: it won't help at all
[22:12:24] --> rovragge has joined #exult
[22:12:26] <Fingolfin> Dominus: you see, for project fink (hey we get 20,000+ webhits/day with that), we should restrict the trackers to people who are logged in
[22:12:33] <rovragge> found a modeline for 320x200
[22:12:46] <-- rovragge has left IRC (Client Quit)
[22:12:48] <Fingolfin> now we get only bug reports from logged in people... like "justabugreport" (cool username :)
[22:13:03] <Dominus> Fingolfin: 1.I was still writing, and hit enter before reading it
[22:13:14] <Dominus> 2. you are probably right
[22:13:32] <Fingolfin> oh, and ppl who don't read docs are not the worst. Worse are people who don't read the docs and therefore flame you for not providing a certain feature (regardless of whether the feature is there or not)
[22:14:07] <wjp> yeah, the exult community really isn't all that bad
[22:14:11] <Fingolfin> also, as an OSS author, one has to be prepared for ppl who demand certain things; like demanding a certain decision is being voted on
[22:14:23] <Fingolfin> of course, it is you who would have to implement the vote =)
[22:14:23] <Dominus> yeah, if I read one more about "killing/stealing" I'll .. (I don't know)
[22:14:31] <Fingolfin> hehehe =)
[22:15:46] <Dominus> no, the Exult community is really not that bad. Imagining that we have at least 10000 users we really do fine
[22:16:37] <Dominus> in those we had about 100 to 200 "black sheep" who are too ... to read
[22:16:44] <Dominus> that's not too bad
[22:17:17] <Dominus> (and 100 is a wild guess it's probably not that bad)
[22:21:07] <Fingolfin> why do you think we have 10,000 users?
[22:21:16] <wjp> nr. of downloads
[22:22:03] <wjp> maybe higher. Alpha5 was download about 14K times
[22:22:08] <Fingolfin> well
[22:22:21] <Fingolfin> I know quite a lot of people (including me) who sometimes download a file multiple times
[22:22:28] <Fingolfin> e.g. on different machines, or because a download was corrupt
[22:22:31] <wjp> true
[22:22:34] <Fingolfin> or because I accidentally deleted the installer
[22:22:49] <Fingolfin> but several thousands in any case, so far is mostly sure then
[22:22:57] --> Dominik has joined #exult
[22:23:31] <Dominik> hrmpf
[22:23:57] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
[22:24:22] <matto> please, where to download exult?
[22:24:48] <Dominik> Fingolfin: but I still think that we have at least +10k, judging that we had roughly the same number of downloads in the last alphas
[22:24:52] <Dominik> ?download
[22:24:57] <wjp> ?url
[22:24:57] <exultbot> The official Exult homepage is at: http://exult.sourceforge.net/
[22:27:37] <-- Dominik has left IRC (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
[22:27:49] --> Dominik has joined #exult
[22:28:16] --- Dominik is now known as Dominus
[22:28:24] * matto can't believe the news today.. is the world going insane?
[22:29:04] <wjp> which news?
[22:29:10] <wjp> israel?
[22:33:23] <matto> wjp: yes
[22:43:19] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("night")
[22:58:01] <wjp> I should go too
[22:58:02] <wjp> night
[22:58:06] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[22:58:08] <Dominus> see you
[22:58:44] <Dominus> well, if everyone goes I go too. matto, keep an eye on the channel! :-)
[22:58:47] <Dominus> bye
[22:58:51] <matto> Dominus: hehe
[22:58:52] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")