Not challenging enough I'm afraid...

[Blah]

Sure Exult is great and all the rest (im not going to crap heaps cause I'm sure you earn enough praise), but the game is not challenging anymore. Here are three things that I've noticed that arn't like the original:

* If you wish you flee from battle you need only turn off combat mode and you are suddenly outrunning your enemy.

* Party members arn't annoyed at the Avatar stealing items

* Shopkeepers arn't protective enough of their items, for instance I could walk into the weapons store in Trinsic and move all his items and sheilds around and the storekeeper wouldn't go off at me. However when I open up the secret compartment and move things around there, he "sometimes" calls the guards.

Basically it's too easy to steal, thus no point in buying.

One more thing, the AI is really easy to exploit because they get trapped a fair bit by items and bodies on the ground and sometimes don't even attack once they have been alerted. I know that you are going to say that Exult was never meant to be like the original, but these are some things that I feel are important.

[SB-X]

Basically it's too easy to steal, thus no point in buying.

So don't steal. It is mentioned in the FAQ...

Really though, the first item you mentioned is from the original. Combat was easy and you could escape faster than the enemies could travel. The second two things you mentioned can be improved if someone thinks it is important enough to do it.

[Dino3]

Even if the first was from the original, I think it'd be nice to fix it. Exult has some things better than the original, so I guess the Exult guys could improve this as well...

[Blah]

I meant disrespect by the way, the exult team is doing a great job.
and dito to what Dino the Dark Dragon said

[sslaxx]

Give 'em time, and maybe try the unstable branch (I'm thinking of doing so, want to play with Exult Studio).

[Zosite]

You´re right Blah! My fanatical adhesion to U7 and to the Exult project compels me to second Dino´s motion. [:-))

[Dino3]

A project gets better when things are improved even beyond what the game originally was, although still remaining perfectly faithful to the original (which means adding only some better gameplay things and fixes).

So I think suggesting ways to improve it can only help to get us a better Exult.

And by the way, the fact that it continues to improve even after offering a playable engine means it's doing what the original couldn't. The Exult team should continue to fix bugs and add features, remaining faithful to the original as much as possible but allowing more playability.

[Dominus]

combat and stealing are both not challenging, true, but IMO those were not challenging at all in the original. To make combat better the whole combat engine would need to be rebuilt and made different from the original. Stealing needs to be better sometime...
But with all things in U7/exult people have different priorities. Some people want story improvements, some want combat, some want new features...
hard to choose...
especially when you count those people to whom every change from the original is a sacrilege...

[Trevor_Clim]

suggestion for improving stealing:

save the X und Y position of the avatar in two variables and the X and Y positions of the NPS, too and the facing-direction of the NPC.
if the NPC looks in the avatar's direction and he steals something, the NPC calls the guards, if not the avatar could take the whole funitures with him

won't be difficult to code, ey?

[Blah]

ahh crap, here's what I meant to say..

"I mean't *no* disrespect"

[Blah]

The thrill of stealing was what made Ultima 7 (in my opinion) one of the best games. You'd do all saughts of crazy stuff just steal and not get your party members angry (ie: putting the stolen goods in Iolo's backpack). Even going around brittania at night and looking through peoples clothes and waking them up

All these things ad realism and that is what Ultima 7 was so good for. It must be a killer having to program code for this kind of stuff, but you guys have accomlished more than you probably thought was possible.
All that I'm asking is that you think about it, and if programming this saught of thing is too difficult then I won't complain cause I can't program at all.

[SB-X]

I never thought stealing was thrilling in the original. It was too easy once I figured out how the NPCs detected it.

[Morg]

well heres a suggestion, give each item an owner attached to it, and when you try to sell someone one of there own items they know it and call the guards

Avatar: "hey jeweler look over there"

Shop Keep: "What i don't see anything"

Avatar: "Iolo Hold these for a second"

Shop Keep: "What was i supposed to see"

Avatar: "Ohh i guess i was mistaken, by the way i just found these earings"

Shop Keep: "Yeah i recognise thoes they are mine . . . GUARDS!!!!"

[drcode]

Trevor: I like that idea, and it does seem like it would be fun to try.

[Trevor_Clim]

DrCode, is it possible to code at all? or it is something which would take much effort?
some further thoughts:

of course walls must be calculated, too, perhaps that could be a bit difficult. closed doors are important, too and how far can the NPC see? One screen-length? That would be the best:
The NPC call only the guards, IF:
-you can see the NPC on the screen
-the NPC looks in the avatar's direction
-no wall is interrupts a direct line between the avatar and the NPC
-no closed door is in the way direct line between the avatar and the NPC

perhaps you could attach some more indvidual stealing-behavior. so some NPCs don't care if you move the items a bit, put it from the table on another, for example

i think, if this is coded, Exult has another big feature, that would make it better than the original
(and I think, Garriott had implemented it, too if he had the idea or a possible way to make it.)

[SB-X]

Heh I thought all this would already have been implemented.

[Gileathane Dragon]

I would prefer combat to be harder also. It wasn't challenging in the original, but it does seem easier through Exult. Granted though, that it may just
seem that way after so much time has past.


I'm a man, not a troll . . .

[SB-X]

Have you tried the combat difficulty setting?

0
**0 is default, negative values make combat easier, positive makes it harder. It affects the chance of a hit, and the HP's lost if a hit occurs.

[drcode]

The 'theft-detection' has always checked that the NPC is nearby, and not behind walls or closed doors. I just added code (in 1.1x) to do as you suggested, which means that he has to be looking roughly in the Avatar's direction.

[SB-X]

So this makes stealing easier?

[Gileathane Dragon]

Cheers SB.

[filea 'o' fish]

Make the stealing harder, not easier

Or even better, make it 'fair'. Keep it as real life as possible without it becoming easy. Perhaps you should make it so that the more the storekeeper is closer to the avatar, the more chance of being caught. And multiply this value by a couple of digits when he actually facing you.

I'm positive this can be made to work. All that really needs to be discussed is the way in which it works. Do we want it to be like the original or better?
Some oldschool gamers may prefer the old way, so it's important that there is some saught of option that can disable the new theft detection.

[drcode]

It makes it easier, but I reduced the # of warning you get before they call the guards. Seems to me that stealing is always easy, since you can just come back when the NPC's are sleeping or eating.

About combat: In the original, I'm pretty sure that 'dexterity' detemined how fast you could attack. We'll probably add that into the 1.1x version. Maybe it should also determine how fast you can run when in combat. Seems to me you should be able to run from a troll, but not from a gremlin.

[Blah]

yah good ideas there DrCode, nice to know someone is working on the combat

[peebles]

About stealing: It seems harder in Exult v. 1.000 (win32) than I remember in original U7. I think I used to just move stuff directly into a container and they wouldn't say anything. Now they seem to see thru walls or see around corners.

[Trevor_Clim]

what about my suggestion with the NPC-line of sight for 4 directions?
i suggested that some months ago, and i was told that the team will try to code it.
whats up with that?

[drcode]

It's been in the 1.1x branch for several weeks. I guess it's not obvious enough:-)

[artaxerxes]

that _might_ deserve to be in an announcement update on the main page. After all it hasn't been updated since November.

Artaxerxes

[Dominus]

to me it seems we've all been "slacking" a bit. At least speaking about me
I should have at least integrated recent combat changes as well as the line of sight thing... But honestly I can't see myself doing anything before march as I'll spend the whole of february at the same spot I spent it last time!:-)
I'll remember to drink a "Lava Flow" for all of you!

[drcode]

Can't you take a laptop down to the beach?:-)

[Dominus]

he he!
In fact I will take my laptop with me but I doubt my gf will be happy to see me working on anything

[artaxerxes]

you should have seen my wife's face when I brought my Zaurus to St-Martin (Carribeans) and on the beach too!

Oh well, you're a geek or you're not one!

artaxerxes

[Dominus]

yeah, my gf and her daugher are always laughing because I take my laptop with me when I go to the toillet - to read comics...