To the programmers.

[Skutarth]

I am eager to learn C++, but I am having trouble at learning it. I think I need a direct teacher, but it also may be because the guide I'm using isn't working. Do you know a guide that will take you from the very basics to the more advanced coding? If so, could you link to it? I would like to code for the Exult team, but it seems I can't learn...

[Dirty Hairy]

Well, I for one would go looking for help in the university library.... Apart from time ( ), one can find all it needs to learn c++. I don't know how things are in public librarys in the US, but I suppose there should be something there too.
After all, I think working with a book is a lot easier than with some sort of turtorial, as you will have to look up things quite often for some time...

[Skutarth]

I'm in the 8th grade, I can't just wander into the college and check out books...

[Automaton Dragon]

Try Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in C++", available either in bookstores/library, or as a free download at http://www.mindview.net/

[Galleon Dragon]

Hi,

If you want to learn C++ the first thing you need to ask is what do I want to be able to do?
-run avis
-use 3d
-use 2d!!!
-adjust the screen properties
-send data across a network
...

1. Find some source code (that WORKS!) of what you want to do.
2. Fiddle with it! Crash your computer numerous times!

Which OS are you targeting? MAC? PC?
If it's PC I recommend Visual C++ introductory edition. Use it's samples to learn from.

Note: If you haven't used Basic or an easier language you may find learning C++ too difficult and thus not worth while.

[Skutarth]

I don't know any programming language, and I am arguing with myself whether I should learn C++ or Java. What do you think I should learn?

[dag]

well, java or c++ are great languages, but for starting to learn
programming at all i'd suggest an imperative language like oberon,
delphi or (please don't hit me) m$ visual basic.
it's quite hard to use c++ or java efficiently when one hasn't got any
programming experience at all.

[Meat Shield]

I'd say between the two you asked about... learn Java first. You'll learn the concepts of OOP more or less from with Java or C++, but Java is more "friendly", so you can focus more on creating your programs than focusing on trying not to make little logic messes. (String handleing and the garbage collector are what I like best in Java over C++)

[Skutarth]

What I like most in Java is it's support for all OS's that support Java Runtime.

I did try using Micro$oft Visual Basic for making an autorun. I can't figure out the two things I need. I need a function on a button to close the window, and I need an execute program button code.

Also, the only way I can see to get to Visual Basic is to get through it through Micro$oft Word.

[Skutarth]

Great minds think alike. (Micro"$"oft)

[dag]

the "visual basic for applications"-interpreter (vba) that comes with m$
office is only meant to be used for working with the office products.

when you want to create standalone programs (*.exes) you need to
purchase visual basic, which is far more powerful (but still from
microsoft).

[Valkrys]

A few things:

It really depends on who you are, how you think, that sort of thing. I'm learning to code myself; when I took my first look at C++, it practically gave me a headache. It's a lot of abstract principles all coming together at once, and, if you don't have any prior knowledge of coding, it could be a little much.

I went through and zoomed through learning Visual Basic... it's pretty much coding pre-school. It's simple, straight-forward, and it introduces you to the ABSOLUTE basics of coding in pretty much any language, (variables, datatypes, arrays, functions, that sorta thing.) I worked with VBA for a little bit... I would suggest not to waste your time. I didn't find it very benefiical for "recreational coding".

And then I moved to C++, which I'm learning right now... after going through VB, it's a LOT easier and straight forward to understand, because you don't have all these relatively simple concepts bombarding you at once.

And I don't mean to sound like a dick, but -- don't expect to understand and master coding easily, given your age. You sound like a -very- bright guy, but coding is something that quite a few college students have to struggle through, especially if you get into more convoluted and complex programs, with more convoluted and complex math involved.

Just my 2 cents, anyway.

[Salicias]

>>don't expect to understand and master coding easily, given your age<<

But, if you start now and keep to it, who knows what level you'll be at when your in college.

-Salicias

[drcode]

I think the advice to start with an interpreted language like BASIC is very good. From there, you might learn a little about C before going on to an object-oriented language like C++ or Java.

[dag]

basic [even delphi] isn't a good language to implement 'professional
features' or to learn functional or object-oriented programming.

but it's an easy platform to start with and one gets this 'hey, i _understand_
this hello-world-algorithm!!'-feeling quite easily. i started with lokomotive
basic and pc-basic ages ago and it helped me learning to understand basic
(fundamental) algorithms quite well.

however, don't stay too long with this language for you'll never learn the
hardcore programming techniques with it...

[Dirty Hairy]

I started learning to code with Borland Turbo Pascal as a pupil. It's easier to learn than c or c++, I think, begause the code is less cryptic, and it can help you a big deal with understanding basic programming principles. Also, you can get an overview of object-oriented programming...

[Skutarth]

I understand the concept of C++ completely. I just can't memorize the functions. They are hard to learn, since the names are very random, unlike it would be on a TI-83 or something. I like programming on TI's becauset they are as close to english as you can get while it still being a programming language. I can actually program pretty well on them. I just can't memorize the functions of C++. I have watched my two bro's working with it. I've seen my older bro work with Java. I just need someone to lead me by the hand through this.

Java is like a bike. It has different parts, and if you take out one of the parts you need at the moment, it won't work. It's object based. Blah blah blah, no it's not, blah blah. I know that's the response I'll get, but that's the best example I can think of right now, so deal with it...
Hehehe... *yawn*

[ordoc]

I learned C when I was about 11 years old and was doing reverse engineering at 13, and started learning the win32 API, as well as x86 assembly and of course learning C++. Now that im older and in college I've been doing a lot of Java and now im learning DirectX in my spare time (which i don't have much of)

I would say stick with C/C++/Java to start off, it might seem hard at first, but its a waste of time I think to spend time on anything else. Even if it seems hard after a while it will start to come together

[cbreaker]

You said you have two brothers that code in C/C++? Then why are you asking us this question? heh.

If you are a complete novice, then I completely agree with some of the folks here, C++ is not the language to begin with. Depending on the type of person you are, you'll likely become overwhelmed very quickly.

The biggest motivation to learn something is to have a goal. If you want to get something done, to do something, you'll learn to figure it out. Simply learning a programming language for the sake of learning it can be boring and you might never end up picking up that programming book that's on the shelf.

To start with the absolute basics, like arrays, variables, that sort of thing, I find that a web language like PHP is a good place to start. I'm just beginning to learn C myself, and I've been able to learn it quite a bit easier then when I first tried to learn it, because I've been doing a lot of PHP stuff. You get a feel for this type of programming when coding in something like PHP. You may not get the same concepts if you deal with BASIC or COBALT. I really don't know; I've not ever done much work in either, but they were recommended to me over and over again when I'd ask around about where to start.

As far as the "I'm in the 8th grade, I can't just wander into the college and check out books..." part, well, you can visit any public library and take out books. Any library I've seen, unless maybe if you live in Boondox, USA, has many books on C/C++ and lots of other languages.

As far as PHP, there's some excellent on-line help and some downloadable help files (like the windows .chm help file) that you can search on while you work. The best thing to do is quickly read through the functions, so you know what you can do, and then try to program something. You'll say "hey there was a function that could do xyz" (you know because you read through the functions) and you'll be able to quickly search the help file to figure out which one it was.

Unfortunately, learning programming is generally a long, long road. But, that dosn't mean that you can't start getting results right away. Programming in something like PHP can help you see results very quickly, which helps motivate me. It might help you too.

[Colourless]

I started with ANSI C, and look at me, I'm a complete nut case

-Colourless Dragon

[artaxerxes]

what about Python?
It's EZ, OO and powerful. A good stepping stone.

Artaxerxes

[drcode]

Hmm... my progression was:

PL/1, BASIC, ALGOL60, HP1000 assembler, Z80 assembler, C, PASCAL,
C++, Java, C++, and now C again.

[sjs191]

My learning progression was:

BASIC (anybody else around here remember Compute! Magazine.. and typing in all those basic programs for 8-bit computers waaayyyy back when?)
PASCAL
C
C++
Java
Perl (I wouldn't recommend this for someone who wants to learn programming, but if you want to get a real-world task done, and you need to write the program quickly, Perl rocks!)

For someone who wants to learn programming, I'd recommend Java first, it'll teach you'll learn lots of good object-oriented principles... plus the dev environment is $free. There's also an amazingly good $free development environment for Java...

http://www.eclipse.org/

[Telemachos]

Well, I think I'll second that.. java might be a good language to start with.

Most of the other replies has suggested that you start out by learning a procedural language first like Basic, C or Pascal... That was also how I got started with programming but I think maybe that advice just seems sound to us older guys because those languages were the standard when we started programming. Now I'm not so sure anymore because in my opinion the time for procedural programming is long gone.. if you want to learn something that'll aid you later in your career then an object oriented language is the way to go. All (or at least most) larger projects uses object oriented languages these days.

So by starting out with Java (or C++ for that matter, but that's a more complicated and "ugly" language - although still the fastest) you'll learn to think in objects right from the start which might be very beneficial. I'll wager that most of us older guys who comes from procedural languages had a harder time getting rid of all the "bad" habbits we got from C and this might have caused some bad OO design in the beginning

The benefits of learning java as I see it is that you don't have to worry about some of the more nasty things in C++ like memory deallocation (because java has garbage collection) and whether or not to use pointers to objects etc.. I can easily understand that a newcommer to C++ would be extremely puzzled by a line like:

game->level.someVar->someValue = bla;

I mean, what the hell is that dot doing in there? Do we use '->' or '.'? In java you always use '.' so that's one less thing to worry about

In case anyone is interested and since everybody else is posting the order they learned languages in I'll also post mine

BASIC
Pascal
Assembly
C
Delphi
C++
Java (actually I think Java and C++ was something I learned a the same time)
Beta
ML
Self
Smalltalk

From the list above I think can only recommend learning C++ and Java ... and possibly Delphi for some quick (windows) prototyping of GUI based programs.

- Tele

[Skutarth]

Thank you everybody. I've learned the bare basics of C++ now! Now I need to learn Windows Programming, so it's more user-friendly and nice looking.

To Galleon Dragon:
I want to learn everything. C++ is fun and easy. Looking at source code helps a lot, but only if you know what's going on.

[RazorBlade]

I guess starting with C++ can't be wrong, but I would always recommend Java because it's a lot of fun using it(well, at least for me )

I learned it this way, which is similar to most here and, I guess, not the best way:

Basic (on C64 when I was seven; I saw that Print-goto animation and my fate was sealed! )
Turbo Pascal
Delphi
Prolog
C / Assembler
PHP
C++
Java

Also I think UML is the way to go.

[Covenant]

I studied Development of Computer Applications (similar to Computer Science). Our teacher of coding made us start with C/C++ because once you have learned OOP and "good ways" it's very easy to learn other languages.

My progression was:

Basic (on Amstrad CPC 6128 at the age of 7 too )
C
Assembler
C++
ASP / VBScript / Javascript
Visual Basic .NET
C# (more or less M$ Java, but very very powerfull indeed)
PHP
Java (just a begginer)

My tips: A good book, lot of examples and work on this everyday