Suggestions for future versions of the Keyring mod

[Norseman]

I see Marzo Sette Torres' keyring mod adds a lot of interactions etc to the game. Now, in order to highten the realism of the game a couple of more notches, would it be possible to add the following

-ability to sell weapons/armor at weapons shops (which you could in Ultima VI, and can in more the less any other RPG)
-make Brother Wayne (the lost Monk in Despise) actually return to Empath Abbey after talking to him and giving him directions
-make Weston (the prisoner in LB's castle) return to Paws after he is released

[marzo]

-make Brother Wayne (the lost Monk in Despise) actually return to Empath Abbey after talking to him and giving him directions
-make Weston (the prisoner in LB's castle) return to Paws after he is released

Those are really good ideas; I've added them to the list of things I plan to do for the Keyring mod (near the top, as they don't seem to require much work).

[SB-X]

There's already so much money and free equipment to be found in the game, being able to sell weapons and armor wouldn't really help you, except to unload some of that free equipment, which you can just drop anywhere.

Ever consider changing the name of "the Keyring mod" to something more befitting?

[marzo]

Well, originally, it was a mod that simply added SI Keyring to BG; then I added a quest to obtain the Keyring; afterwards, I added the (still incomplete) spellcasting system because Laurianna was a mage (even though she joining the party and the spellcasting system were both disabled in the first release, both were made before other aspects such as the Codex & Shrines). Since I was also re-doing the Codex Shrine, I decided to tack it onto the mod too; naturally, the new Codex Shrine begged for the Codex. And then came the whole shrine-meditation thing and everything. And so it went.

Calling it the "Keyring mod" only seemed natural, and IMHO, fitting. But I do see your point.

[Malignant Manor]

What is still incomplete with regards to the spellcasting system? I know that party casters have almost all spells instead of a few spells that they know already and whatever the original spellbooks have. I'm not sure how hard it is to check quality flags in the spellbooks, but you would be one of the handful of people that has enough knowledge of UCC, U7, and Exult to do it. I have a decent version of the Gypsy Fortune Teller sequence if you want that for the Avatar to choose a class. Trying to balance the classes for the Avatar and choosing all the spells and skills for them are a pain and still things I need to work on before I release.

I think Druids and Tinkers were in their own tier where spellcasting is concerned (3/4 power and 1/4 power respectively) although I'm pretty sure you left it out on purpose, because it would be easy to have implemented it when you implemented 1/2 spellcasting.

Enchant, Fire Blast, Telekinesis, Wizard Eye, Poison, Sleep, Lightning, Charm, Dispel Field, Explosion, Fire Field, Great Heal, Fire Ring, Flame Strike, Poison Field, Sleep Field, Death Bolt, Delayed Blast, Energy Field, Mass Charm, Mass Might, Mass Dispel Field, Invisibility All, and Swordstrike seem to be bugged with needing 00 reagents. I think these are pretty much in order by circle.



-ability to sell weapons/armor at weapons shops (which you could in Ultima VI, and can in more the less any other RPG)

That would require a lot of work.

[marzo]

I know that party casters have almost all spells instead of a few spells that they know already and whatever the original spellbooks have.

That, for one. I plan to implement spell-learning routines where not only do party members have their own spells, but can teach some of them to other party members (including the Avatar), as well as learn from NPC mages (or from the Avatar). Also, there is the spellcasting AI which is nowhere near finished. I also intend to have more level-based effects for spells. Lastly, and for much farther into the future, I am also making a dynamic spell system where you can create your own spells by selecting the rituals and effects.

I have a decent version of the Gypsy Fortune Teller sequence if you want that for the Avatar to choose a class.

I have one too for TFL, but haven't commited yet. But thanks for the offer.

I think Druids and Tinkers were in their own tier where spellcasting is concerned (3/4 power and 1/4 power respectively)

Not in U4, unless I am terribly wrong. Besides, they can be individualized through their spell lists.

[spell list] seem to be bugged with needing 00 reagents. I think these are pretty much in order by circle.

I will take a look into it.

[marzo]

[spell list] seem to be bugged with needing 00 reagents. I think these are pretty much in order by circle.

Ack. I noticed that every spell is using wrong reagents due to a dumb mistake of mine. It is fixed now.

[Malignant Manor]

Going through your code (from TFL though) I see this

var reagent_frames = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8];

which seems to look like what you are taking about. That is a really easy mistake to make though. I didn't notice it when I was browsing through the code a couple times earlier.


Well the only thing I have right now about spellcasting abilities is from a crappy txt manual that was shipped with the "Ultima I-VI Series" cd that I got in a bundle pack. This is posted under Ultima IV

Magical ability is directly related to the Profession and Intelligence of yourself and your traveling companions. Magical strength is twice the Intelligence of the spellcaster, with potential modified by Profession. The enchantment potential of the various Professions is:

Mage~ Full
Ranger~One half
Druid~Three fourths
Tinker~One fourth
Bard~One half
Fighter ~None
Paladin~One half
Shepherd~None


They also did stupid stuff like have Ultima IV Warriors of Destiny instead of V and didn't include the copy protection questions in U6. The line "Magical strength is twice the Intelligence of the spellcaster" seems wrong to me also.

[TdI]

>I am also making a dynamic spell system where you can create your own spells by selecting the rituals and effects.

That sounds nice. I of the things I liked most about U8 was the magic system, especially sorcery. Preparing sorcery spells actually felt like doing something evil and powerful >:) alot more immersive than simply dobleclicking a spellbook.
Even though it was sometimes also incredibly frustrating, before the patch...

About selling swords and stuff... I think it would be cool if you could at least sell the swords that you create. Its fun to make swords, but seems a rather pointless thing to do at the moment. Now, if you could sell a sword for say, 30 gold, that would actually be an alternative to baking bread and picking eggs.

[marzo]

Going through your code (from TFL though) I see this
var reagent_frames = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8];
which seems to look like what you are taking about.

It is not. That particular version of the code, which I am thinking you got from the TFL installer, is different from what is in the TFL CVS and from what is used in the Keyring mod. Although it *does* remind me that I need to update the TFL CVS too.

[Malignant Manor]

Well talking about U8 spellcasting and item frames reminds me that I have no idea how to name individual frames of a shape. That is one reason I haven't made functions for the U8 spells and spell items. Also, is there a way to change the name when the quality changes ie spell foci.


TFL installer, is different from what is in the TFL CVS

Of course, this is something I can't find. I can sure find a lot of Google spam virus laden porn links.

[Warder]

The quotes from the U4 manual are correct. Magical strength (M.P.) in U4 was twice your Intelligence, modified by your class modifier. Druids got 75%, tinkers got 25%.

[marzo]

TFL installer, is different from what is in the TFL CVS

Of course, this is something I can't find.

Try here. You can either browse the CVS on the web (available by a link in the page I linked to) or obtain a CVS client and download the whole thing (using the instructions also in the page I linked to -- you will have to use anonymous access).

[Malignant Manor]

What about having different single click names for different frames of a shape. It seems hardcoded, but is there a way to do it? It really would waste lots of shapes and functions otherwise.

I think that what threw me off before about that project page was all the dead files and I didn't look in the right folder.

[marzo]

What about having different single click names for different frames of a shape. It seems hardcoded

It is. The main problem in de-hard-coding this has been coming up with a good format for it -- there are some shapes whose frame names depend on quality *and* frame.

[Malignant Manor]

It is a bit of a pain coming up with a good cover all format.

shape/ frame/quality/single click description

-1 can be any frame/quality and the default unless something is changed

:food_shape/food_frame/food_quality/single_click_description
:377//food item//s #name in shape viewer and what will be shown if nothing else is changed
:377/0/-1/bread #all of the qualities for frame one will be named bread
:377/1/-1/French bread #all of the qualities for frame one will be named French bread
etc. then here are some different quality settings
:377/23/0/horse ribs
:377/23/1/human ribs
:377/23/2/goblin ribs
:377/23/52/cyclops ribs

Qualities 2 through 51 would be "goblin ribs" since the other qualities aren't stated. 52+ would be "cyclops ribs or alternatively the name of the first frame quality or the name for the shape as a whole (/food item//s)

You could have a default name like it shows in the viewer /food item//s and then only specified frames and/or qualities would have a different name. Maybe a check mark in ES as to whether different frames or qualities change the name.

I bet you can provide a better example than this and what you have in your head as to what could work. You should start another thread and ask for people's opinions of what would be a good format. Just copy and paste this over there and hopefully you will get a good idea of what you would like to use based on responses.

PS. I hope this is somewhat easy to understand.

[marzo]

If only it were that simple... it would have been done quite a long time ago. To be a valid de-hard-coding mechanism, it must be capable of at least reproducing the existing frame names without adding too much bloat. This would mean using entries from text.flx as much as possible for them, and the ability to (optionally) specify ranges of frames and qualities for a given frame name. Then there are things like ashes in SI (which display the NPC's name + "'s ashes"). Finally, the text.flx offsets are different in SI and SI with SS (mainly because there are many frame names in SS not present in plain SI), which presents a problem.

[Malignant Manor]

If only it were that simple...

I was afraid of that but trying to be hopeful.

What about making it available for shapes 1036 and up? They aren't in the original files. That hopefully only presents a problem if you ever do de-hard-code it. Is there anyway to make another .txt file other than textmsg.txt that can be read first and if a shape is overwritten than ignore the info for it in textmsg.txt?

[Norseman]

Oh yeah, one more thing: Would it be possible to enable Trellek's paperdoll and make him a joinable character (as was obviously originally intended)?

[marzo]

Would it be possible to enable Trellek's paperdoll and make him a joinable character (as was obviously originally intended)?

No, and for the same reason they never enabled Trellek joining the party: implementing that paperdoll would have required massive engine changes.

[Malignant Manor]

You can use his portrait to make a face for him to use with human SI paperdoll types. I did this for my mod although his eyes need work. You could also use someone elses paperdoll as a template for Trellek and make a decent picture for him.

[Norseman]

Would it be possible to make him a custom paperdoll similar to the one made for Spark?

[marzo]

Would it be possible to make him a custom paperdoll similar to the one made for Spark?

Spark doesn't *have* a custom paperdoll. Although it was drawn and posted in the Phorum, it is not used (not even distributed) with Exult. Or Keyring or TFL or whatever.

And I don't know why people are so obsessed with Trellek anyway... personally, I never liked the whole Emps idea, Trellek included. In fact, I am going as far as to state that anyone who wants can make an alternate version of the Keyring mod which has Trellek joinable, but I most certainly will not make it for the "official" Keyring distribution. And any requests and arguments for it will be sent to /dev/null.

[Crysta the Elf]

Its for the same reason that everyone likes using Sherry in U6, Marzo. Its a change of pace from the rest of the game, and relatively interesting.

That plus making you go through what you have to to "get him to join", only to have him not is kinda annoying.

[Malignant Manor]

One problem is that I believe it effects at least three NPC conversations if not more (him, wife, elder). They would look weird with the larger size weapons. More important is the fact that Marzo doesn't like emps. Sherry was pretty awesome in U6 once you built her up along with the fact that she circumvented doing some puzzles.

[SB-X]

That plus making you go through what you have to to "get him to join", only to have him not is kinda annoying.

Good point. A mod (perhaps an update to Keyring) should completely remove the Emps quest from the U7 story.

[marzo]

Good point. A mod (perhaps an update to Keyring) should completely remove the Emps quest from the U7 story.

Now, THAT is a good idea

[Crowley]

Regarding Weston, I remember him being sent to work around Empath Abbey once when I played the game (pre-Exult). I think his wife also mentions this happening. I couldn't speak with him without using the cheat mode to alter him. I think he had some new dialogue, but the portrait was still him looking through bars.

[marzo]

Regarding Weston [...]

Nope, he is removed from the game; there is no extra dialog. Although his wife does mention that LB gave him "short-term employment" so he could earn some money before returning home (but she does not mention where).