Is Britannia the Valley of Eidolon?

[Soul Reaver]

Well, I don't know if I'm the first to think of this or not, but for some time I've thought about this...

As you all know, it is possible to use a musket in Ultima 7. Bullets for this thing, however, are obtained in a very unlikely place - by double-clicking on the huge, dinosaur-like skulls in Britannia.

Now, I've always wondered about that. I mean, it seems like the last place where you'd expect to find musket bullets, right? These bones are super-old, yet they contain bullets for (relatively) modern gunpowder weaponry?

Which got me to thinking... isn't it a fact that in The Savage Empire, the Avatar can build a rifle/musket? And use it to shoot dinosaurs? Which would, of course, cause them to die... and be full of bullets?

Mayhap the Britannian dinosaur bones are the remains of the dinosaurs killed by the Avatar in the Valley of Eidolon in 'The Savage Empire'!

Actually, it's more like that the ability to get bullets from dinosaur bones is not meant to imply that, but is simply a tongue-in-cheeck tribute to The Savage Empire... but wouldn't it be interesting if 'The Savage Empire' was really a trip into Britannia's distant past?

What are your thoughts on this?

[dino]

The Valley of Eodon is not Britannia but Earth, as is proved by the wisp's dialogue.

Your theory may only be correct if Britannia is actually Earth in the past.

[DemonKnight]

I always thought that they were trying to say that Britannia was actually Earth in the past, for example, they didnt believe in disease. Disease really wasnt discovered until the 19th and 20th centuries. The people in Britannia also seemed to have theories that are relatively accepted in today's sciences. I personally got the impression that they wanted you to think that Britannia was Earth in the past.

[SB-X]

Don't you need silver moongates to go through time? (if you're using gate travel at all) But maybe red moongates can do anything.

[Soul Reaver]

Hey, don't take me too seriously here - I was just raising it as a point of interest. I figured it was more likely a sort of in-joke... a reference to The Savage Empire in Ultima 7, if you will, as opposed to any sort of proof that the two worlds are one and the same.

After all, has anyone else got any reasonable theories as to WHY bullets would drop out of dinosaur skulls?

On a slighly unrelated note... SB-X, I belive that the gate that took the Avatar to the Valley of Eodon (forgive my earlier spelling, I was trying to remember it off by heart) was a weird, black moongate created by a combination of an Orb of the Moons and some sort of odd scientific mishap... so it could do pretty much anything.

[SB-X]

Meaning in regards to "the impression that they wanted you to think that Britannia was Earth in the past". For SE I agree it's probably just a nice reference.

[suraimu]

I didn't know Bahamut had a valley!

[Soul Reaver]

To Suraimu...
Yeah, yeah... very funny. I've already realised I got the name of the valley wrong.

But even so... do YOU think that the bullets in the skulls is an amusing reference to The Savage Empire? Or maybe they just couldn't think of another place to put the bullets for the muskets...

[MV]

Those bones actually looked like giant's skulls and backbones to me, not dinosaurs. The skull is too "human".

Maybe because they ate lots of meat they have lots of iron. Yea, I know, that did suck.

[painful]

How about the fact that the mysterious race in SE is very similar to the one in U7:SI. Both had serpents, both have automatons.. very similar cultures and architecture.

[TMNM Dragon]

The bones are the remains of the silver serpents from Ultima 6.

[painful]

I was referring to the building and mythology, not the actual serpents laying about.

[Soul Reaver]

Interesting, Kel... I hadn't thought of that.

Yes, there definitely are similarities there. Quite interesting. I think it's clear that SE was not meant to be totally seperate from the series in terms of content on a lot of levels (there are obvious references) so it would not be that far-fetched to assume there are other similarities like that too.

Also, why would there be so many Silver Serpent remains in Ultima 7? Is there any actual evidence of this? I always figured that most of the bones were just buried, and that all you see is a skull and a spine... the skulls don't look all that 'snake like' to me...

[SB-X]

The ancient civilization of SI (I havn't actually played through this game) disappeared before Sosaria was split didn't it? So remnants of them might also be found in other parts of Britannia, or at least could have been found at one point. I think there was even something in the UO "story" about that.

[Colourless]

Actually, the Ophidians are set in the post U1 pre U4 era. Exodus stole the Great Earth Serpent from the void, and that caused the war oF imbalance.

[Chris Schumacher]

Speaking of which. I think that the disappearence of the three other continents was tied in with the events of U2. Consider:
When you killed Mondain, there is an explosion of silver (!) lightning, and you're thrown several thousand years into the future (in other words, back to the present) without the aid of a time machine. Shortly thereafter the Silver Gates (timedoors) appear as a result of space/time being rended by Mondain's death. When we next see Sosaria, in U3, it's one continent and change, the other three having mysteriously vanished.
I should also point out, while we're on the subject, that the only continuity errors with U2 arise from the manual itself, which states that Mondain existed on Earth, and was conquered there. If you leave out the manuals (which Hacki's page does, I might add) it becomes very simple: time is screwed up across the multiverse, Minax follows the Stranger back home and destroys the Earth. What's the problem? Why is it necessary to rewrite the game with a 3D engine?

[suraimu]

Also, why would there be so many Silver Serpent remains in Ultima 7?

Because of all the horn blowing we did in Ultima 6.

[Warder]

Those aren't snake bones :/

[MrPaul]

I have'nt tried this in Exult, but in the orignal.. if you attacked someone with the sling, went into your inventory before the stone hit its target you could grab the stone and add it to your stash of bullets.. and if I remember correctly it was the same ammunition used for the guns... (I never discovered the skull thing so I came up with that tedious method.) Neways... just food for thought... big creatures could have been killed by slings... David and Goliath sort of story...

[Soul Reaver]

You can pick up the sling stones after shooting them and use them as bullets?? HAHAHA! That's BRILLIANT!

Yet another bit of craziness in Ultima 7 - I approve! It's almost as good as forcing potions on other people.

And back to the bones... I guess the question as to what exactly they are remains open?

[Oblivious]

I always figured those bones were from dragons :/ It's not like U7's engine could support anything that large, anyhow. I suppose that would make sense since the dragons and drakes in U7 have precious gems on/in their bodies... Plus, I don't think the spine is long enough for it to be from silver serpents. Those things had VERY long bodies...

[Annorax]

Don't snakes have no bones? (Hence why they can bend and twist)

[Venom@school]

Yes, of course snakes have bones.

http://images.google.com/images?q=snake ... 59-1&hl=en

[WishStone Dragon]

*never seen a U6 Silver Serp*

But as it is, you see Dragons and Drakes in U7.... if these are Dragon remains, it would have to be ancient arch-wyrms or something ;D

[SB-X]

> *never seen a U6 Silver Serp*



(from U6Online http://www.geocities.com/galleondragon/ )