Ultima 7 disks

[sqlboy]

Hi all. I don't know if this is the right place to post or not. I am the proud owner of an original and pretty much mint condition Ultima I through VII collection. I have all the original boxes with all the original papers inside. Registration card, demo disks, you name it, I have it and it still looks like the day it was bought. None of the manuals have ever even been cracked.

I heard about exult and figured I'd try it out. My problem is that even though this game was installed once and the box has not been opened since like 1991? or so, 3 disks do not work. 2, 5, and 6. It sucks basically.

I still have the original disk exchange form but I'm guessing it won't work anymore. Does anyone know if its possible to obtain a copy of the game from EA provided I can prove I own it?

[Gradilla Dragon]

I doubt it will ever happen. Someone will most likely point you to eBay.

[drcode]

The old Origin would have helped you. About 4-5 years ago, I bought a copy of Martian Dreams at a used-software store, and emailed them about a bad disk. They sent me a new copy of it without even verifying that I really owned the product.

I doubt if you'll find anyone in EA customer support who's even heard of Ultima 7.

[Playful Dragon]

This reply is going to be a little sticky, and I'll let the mods do what they will with it, no questions asked.

If you look hard enough, you can find Ultima 7 listed as 'Abandonware' on several AW web sites. Now, normally, downloading it would be completely illegal, but since you have the master disks, the line blurs.

I would do the right thing...contact EA first. Give them a chance to replace the disks. If they can or will not, then you can try abandonware sites. The definition of abandonware is a game that is no longer supported by it's parent company, making it impossible to obtain any other way.

Your situtaion, as I said, blurs the lines. Let your concious be your guide on this one.

The other, simpler, solution, would be to just get the Ultima Collection...it has all the Ultimas from Akalabeth through Pagan. That way, you don't need to worry about any other dead disks. Seeing as how that disk is an 'EA Classic', it should be priced at $15 US...and this way, there are no blurred lines to worry about.

Again, mods, feel free to edit any part of this post is you feel you need to...
-Playful Dragon (Who does NOT condone piracy, but DOES condemn bad customer support...)

[Ares]

If you own a legal copy, than download it isnt exactly piracy. Piracy is obtaining the game via illegal means. If you already own the game, than downloading is perfectly legal.
Atleast thats what I was under the impression of. I may be wrong but I dont think so.
I know of a site where you can download it, so if contacting EA doesnt work, you can email me about it.

Basically Playful Dragon is right, although I am almost certain that it is legal to download as long as you own a legal copy.

although Playful Dragon, your definition of abandonware isnt quite right. Abandonware is a program that is not only not supported by its parent company, but also the copyright isnt existant anymore. True abandonware is legal to download. But I dont think any of the ultima's are abandon ware, and im certain ultima 7 is NOT abandonware.

[Oblivious]

"If you own a legal copy, than download it isnt exactly piracy. Piracy is obtaining the game via illegal means. If you already own the game, than downloading is perfectly legal. "

Actually, it's not. They say that owning backup copies is no longer valid or something like that.

[drcode]

No game has an expired copyright, and probably won't until most of us die of old age (or the law is changed).

[Playful Dragon]

Yeah, my definition was part of a half-aborted sentence, that was going to say...'if EA refuses to support it, then...' As it was, I should have pulled the whole sentence.

As I said, it's a huge grey line. It'll be easier if EA can just replace the game, or if you buy the Ultima Collection. Just don't know if you're in such a position.

The idea of Abandonware is more a situation of when a game is no longer available for purchase. U7 can still be bought. So, it's not abandonware. That's why I cut my prior sentence short.

So, if it's warez, the question becomes...if you have a legal copy with bad disks and the parent company is unwilling to replace them, the question boils down to whether or not you can legally obtain a downloaded/warez replacement. Without the original disks, this is a very easy 'no', but your situation is more a dilemma.

Game on...
-Playful

[Ares]

"Actually, it's not. They say that owning backup copies is no longer valid or something like that."

owning backup copies is perfectly legal. Givng away or selling copies isnt though.

there is one copyright law that says its legal to own backup copies, but its illegal to break copyright protections. Im not sure if the law would apply to ultima 7 or video games in general (looking it up, its mainly focused on dvds).
But I think it would include computer games as well

I would like to point out that roms are very similar to this: downloading them as a backup is legal.

And I looked up some more definitions of abandonware and the like. Abandonware is:
1. At least four years old
2. Not being sold or supported by the company that produced it or by any other company. When a certain piece of Abandonware is later found to be sold or supported by a company, then it ceases to be Abandonware.

and copyrights do expire, but its 70 years after the author dies, or if its a company, its 95 years after the copyright date.

[Dominus]

Abandonware is not legally backed up. It's a definition made up by people who want calm their consciense for breaking copyright laws.

If copyright laws are morally ok is something else. It's something citizens should stand up against but it's probably not going to happen. And the 70-95 years you mention above is a figure that changes from time to time. Mainly when companies like Disney decide they want their stuff protected longer than it already is.

So no more defending abandonware here. This thread is close to being frozen.

[Ares]

did I say abandonware is legal? I said downloading backups is. And im not defending abandonware. Nor piracy. Im just saying that as far as I know, its legal to download or copy games for backup purposes if you own a legal copy. It was legal, and unless they made radical changes to the law regarding this (which I doubt), then it still is.

whatever though. I may be wrong: im not a lawyer.

[Playful Dragon]

Exactly, one massive grey area...

If EA would replace the disks, then there is no justification to downloading the program.

If the parent company (EA) refuses to replace bad disks, and a replacement can be had online, is it wrong?

Nobody is arguing that if little Jimmy, who wasn't even born when U7 came out, downloads U7, it is wrong.

We're talking someone WITH legal copies of the disks, and no way of getting replacements from the parent co. Again, never said abandonware was legally dumped. Just, that this poster's situation poses a unique dilemma.

But I'm still curious whan EA's response to the disk replacement was first...
-Playful

[Gerry]

Copyright legislation varies from country to country. The 70/95-year expiry period applies in most countries, yet what you can or cannot do with a work that is copyrighted depends on local jurisdiction.

Even within the European Union there are differences. In the Netherlands, for instance, uploading anything that is copyrighted is illegal while downloading it is seemingly legal since the 1912 Dutch Copyright Law gives people the right to make copies even of works which they do not own themselves - on the condition that it is for private study and use only. Various other European countries have stricter regulations.

The long and short of it is: you should really check which regulations apply in your own country.

Gerry

[wintermute_turing_ai]

How many Exult developers does it take to answer a simple question?
Apparently 7:
1 to give a useful suggestion, and 6 to argue over the moralities of it.

SQL: check your e-mail.

[Ares]

Not everyones a developer, you know.

[Herben]

I, personally, only have working copies of Ultima games thanks to the "Abandonware" pirate sites. I've owned U6 on floppy, U7 BG on floppy, FoV on floppy, U7 SI on floppy, U7 SS on floppy, Complete U7 on CD and a collection of Alkabeth through U6 that I got on on a CD bundled with some other crappy(not to say Ultima is crappy, the other games were. ) games. Of these copies, every single one is damaged in some way or missing parts/whole thing. I have no intention of ever buying another copy of these games, they got their money from me already a few times and at this point the money doesn't even go back to them anyway. I also don't have a problem with people who pirate them, EA doesn't even sell them anymore, so it's impossible for them to lose money from it. If anything, it helps spread the Ultima series and may increase interrest in continuation of the series(which I imagine could use it, given the crap they churn out these days).

I'm a freelance engineer, and I understand Intellectual Property theft quite well because of it. If I had made a program > 10 years ago that I made a good profit on, and continues to have a following even though I no longer sold that program, I wouldn't have a problem with people freely distributing it. You aren't taking anything away from me, what's the harm? This is just my way of thinking though, and I know that others think differently.

[Dominus]

The legality is the reason why we don't want to have people asking for copies and people pointing to warez sites.
The morality is a problem that is best discussed in politics and not here.