Petition Online

P.Ako · Post by **P.Ako** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:07 am

Hi one more time.
Has anyone ever considered to make a petition online to try to convince EA (or Lord British) to sell, give or whatever the rights of the Ultima saga (and/or Britannia, i don't know exactly how's the legal situation of the franchise) back to Lord British so he can gather again a team of programmers and start to (re)make another ultima (starting for remaking UIX of course).

Call me gullible if you want, but we have examples showing us that it possible to retake a dead saga, look for example the case of Fallout, it seemed dead, and suddenly, Bethesda buys the Fallout franchise and the we are going to have a new fallout for next christmas (hopefully).

Anyone cosidered ever this?

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:16 am

As Susie Derkins said in Calvin & Hobbs, "As long as I'm wishing, I'd like a pony."

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:58 pm

Ah, but see, the case is, that EA are apparently considering a new single-player Ultima themselves... Apparently outsourced to one of their subsidiaries that have previous experience in single-player RPGs.

Melchy · Post by **Melchy** » Mon May 05, 2008 6:08 am

That, and of course Richard Garriot doesn't want to make single player games anymore

P.Ako · Post by **P.Ako** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:05 am

^ Yeah but give him a good amount of money, and i'm sure that he will change his mind.

foody · Post by **foody** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:24 am

As long as that new Ultima serie is isometric like Ultima 8 or 7 using that system I am for it. But not 3D. No thanks.

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:04 pm

Hopefully EA will hit hard times sometime in the not too distant future, and they'll start selling off all the licenses they've consumed over the years.

There's a good chance whoever is interested in buying Ultima would respect it a hell of a lot more than EA does.

foody · Post by **foody** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:16 pm

But the problem is...they literally killed the Avatar. How would Ultima be resurrected again?

Post by **marzo** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:22 pm

How would Ultima be resurrected again?

The usual way: ignoring U9 ever existed and making a new (and better) U9

Post by **drcode** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:27 pm

Does anyone make non-3D games anymore, other than for handhelds like the GameBoy? I'd expect any new single-player Ultima PC-game would be 3D. That wouldn't necessarily be bad, as long as they support schedules and a party as well as was done in U7.

As for the Avatar, they could...
1. Have it take place before U9
2. Involve entirely different characters.
3. Hey, it's all magic, so they could bring back the Avatar if necessary.

P.Ako · Post by **P.Ako** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:04 pm

It would be nice to know the exact situation of the franchise (IE, what trademarks are on Richard Garriot hands - I suppose that he still holds the Lord British trademark)

Post by **marzo** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:06 am

There was a link over at Aiera which says it all: The 7 Commandments All Video Games Should Obey. Note especially #1.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:03 am

P. Ako: AFAIK Garriott owns the trademark to the name and figure of Lord British, while EA owns the rest of the Ultima-related trademarks.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:05 am

And I don't see the problem in having a game be both 3D and isometric? AFAIK that's how the original Ultima IX engine was. Isn't Neverwinter Nights also like that? They could of course also go for the Dungeon Siege-style, which seems to be the most common way to do it nowadays and which still has some of the old isometric feel.

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:48 am

How about isometric towns and countryside, and 3D dungeons?

How utterly retro that would be.

P.Ako · Post by **P.Ako** » Tue May 06, 2008 4:50 am

Yes, i think that a 3D Isometric style (like the only RPG worthy of the last years - The Witcher - ) would be nice and valid if it's well done.

In other things, if anyone has already made it, as it seems, i would like to reach a consensus about what should be written in the petition statement.

Something like "The Ultima community wants the rights of Britannia and Ultima back to Richard Garriot so he can (re)make another Ultima title (most likely a new Ultima IX with a solid plot."

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:26 am

Why demand it back to Richard Garriott, when he has said that he has no more interest in single-player Ultimas (or in Ultima at all)?

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:29 am

Also, as far as the Avatar and Lord British is concerned, that could be solved by having it take place far into the future, where Lord British has either kicked the bucket or gone off to explore other lands (sort of a real-world tie-in...). Maybe they could let the main character be Raven and the Avatar's offspring? Or one of his/her descendants again? Lots of possibilities.

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:34 am

The offspring idea is interesting. It's too bad Frigidazzi got killed in SI. You could have their love-child be the main villain in a game set in Serpent Isle.

MustardCat · Post by **MustardCat** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:02 pm

Petitions don't really do anything, lets face it...

I think it would be better to get all the Ultima fans together, pool everyones money, and buy the rights to Ultima.

Post by **Dominus** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:40 pm

i agree with mustard. Very few online petitions get anywhere. Buying the rights would be nice but als not realistic. Who would take care of the money? Who would sign and so on. Not to mention the small detail of EA still making money from the IP. Why would they sell the rights to ultima and have to buy a license to use IP for UO? Of course that could be negotiated but that would mean even more costs for lawyers. And you need lawyers for dealing with a huge beast like EA.
and for another game company buying the rights... Who would have that kind of money to invest in an IP that didn't make money for more than a decade (except for UO)?
At this stage the question is why not create something new with all the things that made ultima so great. Is it the names that made ultima that good or the story and later the interactivity?

notAdragon · Post by **notAdragon** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:26 am

everyone could've been resurrected by the monks after everything is over.

I think supposedly that's how in the "Balancing the Scales" the "walkthrough" (a journal by Iolo) ended mentioning (the monks from Monk's Isle busy resurrecting people killed by the banes after the Avatar went through the Wall of Lights)

foody · Post by **foody** » Thu May 08, 2008 3:54 am

Or wait until my project is completed and you can make all your Ultima game like until your heart explodes

P.Ako · Post by **P.Ako** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:00 am

^Could we have some info about it?

foody · Post by **foody** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:02 am

Well it is simple, it is a complete (commercial) Ultima 7/8 Construction set, it will allow you to make games like Ultima 7 (100% exactly) or Ultima 8 (100% exactly) with your own graphics, animation, blah blah from scratch (not like exult where you need the original data). You can make any games from mid-evil to futurisitic, the event editor is click and play you don't need a single programming skill what so ever, a ten year old could easily learn it but powerful enough to make commercial like games. You have things like: Book editor, spell editor, item editor, weapon editor, NPC editor, PC editor, object editor, etc. You can make everything from scratch, from weapons, spells, reagents, blah blah. I am not sure if you are familiar with RPG Maker 2000, the editor would be like that in terms of friendleness but it will be Ultima 7/8 construction set. At first I wanted to use .NET technology to make it, but my partner (yes I have a partner) suggested that we go to C++ this way we can port it in all systems, like Macintosh, Linux, AmigaOS 4.0, etc. I agreed. We are working right now on the blue print and system analysis part but soon to move to the development part.

Post by **marzo** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:50 am

not like exult where you need the original data

Exult actually does not need the original data for new games; it needs the original data so you can play the original games. It is quite different.

[...]mid-evil[...]

The correct form is "medieval" , as in "from the Middle Ages" (And I am sorry, but this is a pet peeve).

foody · Post by **foody** » Thu May 08, 2008 12:12 pm

What do you mean a pet peeve? Will anyways, Exult may not be requiring original data to make games but exult studio sure requires original data. And you need programming skills to hack or make a game out of it. Well, we will see when it is done..I promise I will show you a website with everything when my project is completed.

By the way, Exult is being hanging around for SO long...I have not seeing a single model made out of it. I have yet to see a single new game from scratch using original graphics from scratch using Ultima 7 engine. I would love to play it...

Post by **marzo** » Thu May 08, 2008 1:50 pm

[qote]What do you mean a pet peeve?[/quote]
This.

but exult studio sure requires original data.

While I agree that ES will not open if you don't have either game, this is probably because everyone programming it so far had the original games and didn't consider the possibility that one could want to use ES without them. Other than that, ES needs the original data no more than Exult does.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:04 pm

By the way, Exult is being hanging around for SO long...I have not seeing a single model made out of it. I have yet to see a single new game from scratch using original graphics from scratch using Ultima 7 engine. I would love to play it...

Yep, that is right, there has not been made anything yet, that is playable. Mostly because people are just busy with everything else. Since "true" Ultima7 fans are at least in their mid twenties (I mean fans that have been around almost since the game came out - that doesn't make them true fans, hence the quotes), they are busy with life.
I'm looking forward to how your idea plays out but I'm not holding my breath. Building an engine from scratch has been announced twelve times a day, probably everyday since the Eternal September. And not many saw the light. Especially not many that weren't backed by a company and involved a team of more than two. Well, there are all the great game engines that aim to make old games playable again, though

(but even with those you see a lot that never make it, especially with DOSBox being so good at its job these days...)

I don't want to discourage you, I'm just not that easy to win over these days

pet peeve: wikipedia is your friend

foody · Post by **foody** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:29 pm

Huh? I am not here to win anyone over. I am doing this for myself, call me selfish but ever since I played Ultima 7 I have being fantasizing of having an editor to make Ultima 7 style games to a point of obsession. I have sworn that I will not leave this world until I have made this dream come true, now that I am working I am spending a lot of my page wage to make this happen. I have already two 20 years experienced programmer on my back and promised them (and willing to fulfill it) insane share of wealth just to make it reality. I am willing to go as far as having them get 70% profit of the project and I get 30% profit just to have this become a reality.

foody · Post by **foody** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:32 pm

Oh as for no more than 2 programmers, I think I won this one * giggle * I have three programmers, me and two others...

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Thu May 08, 2008 3:30 pm

"When you've been in the system as long as I have, you hear many promises... many reassurances...many brave plans." -Dumont/Tron

If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't announce something like this until you at least have a demo to show people.

Like for instance, how I never mentioned the Savage Empire multiplayer game I was making in GameMaker. (I stopped because of the atrocious runtimes, and this was back when I was making the interface and hadn't even started on the client/server part. I also lost the spec document I wrote up in a hard-drive crash (though, ironically, the GM files survived).)

I had such cool ideas for it, like how I added two totems and increased the number of offerings to 8 (including, among other things, peyote), bringing the number of spells up to 40. *sigh*

foody · Post by **foody** » Thu May 08, 2008 4:27 pm

hehe you are right. I will never mention this again until I have something to show.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:41 pm

"notAdragon" wrote:

everyone could've been resurrected by the monks after everything is over.

I think supposedly that's how in the "Balancing the Scales" the "walkthrough" (a journal by Iolo) ended mentioning (the monks from Monk's Isle busy resurrecting people killed by the banes after the Avatar went through the Wall of Lights)

----------------------------------------------

You sure it was "Balancing the scales"? In my "Balancing the Scales" there's no such journal by Iolo, and the story is written in the perspective of the monk Thoxa. There's no mention that I can see of monks resurrecting anyone after the bane massacre, the "walkthrough" part ends with the destruction of the blackrock serpent.

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:27 am

I've heard that Karnax tells the Avatar that the monks will resurrect everyone once balance is restored, but he only tells you this at the end of the Silver Seed quest, IF you plant the Silver Seed after the Banes have been released.

This is just second-hand, though. I never had the patience to put it off that long. The longest I ever waited was until Moonshade should I could have a spellbook to use against Aram-Dol.

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:56 am

I've never really bothered with Silver Seed either... But couldn't that be checked with the Usecode viewer?
Still interested in hearing where notadragon's quite could've come from...

notAdragon · Post by **notAdragon** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:05 pm

Viking: Hmm, I was reading a Chinese edition of the walkthrough, and I assumed it was translated from the English walkthrough. It was a real book, published by a company in Taiwan.

Maybe they made the walkthrough from scratch. I don't have it easily accessible anymore... The walkthrough was told from Iolo's viewpoint as he traveled by the Avatar's side (except the bane part, where Iolo wrote down what the Avatar recollected to him after he was cured).

Viking · Post by **Viking** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:42 pm

Hmm...
Interesting. If you ever get hold of that book again I am sure many would love an English translation of the most interesting parts of it...

Post by **marzo** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:13 am

Directly from the usecode from when you plan the Silver Seed:

Code: Select all

"I am honored to have been present for such a miracle! Even I had
not expected anything this momentous."
if banes have been released:
	"Now that the Tree of Balance thrives in this hallowed glade,
	it's strong roots shall begin healing the wrents in our land.
	Once thou hast restored Balance to our world, who knows what
	miracles may occur? I have even heard it said that the souls of the
	dead shall be returned to life once Balance is restored.
	Only time shall tell. But now, my [son/daughter], it is time that I
	return thee to thy quest."
otherwise:
	"With the Tree of Balance firmly rooted in this hallowed glade, thy
	task of restoring Balance to the world will be much easier, my
	[son/daughter]. Now, my [son/daughter], it is time that you return
	to thy quest.

He doesn't explicitly say they will be resurrected; he doesn't even say the monks will help do it. But he does mention the possibility of them being revived.