[OT] ES4:Oblivion, new "Ultima 7"?

[WhilGrey]

I noticed that game because of the stunning graphics, but after reading an interview, it seems like they are going to use all the mandatory elements which made Ultima 7 such a great game. Interesting, mostly linear plot, a lot of world to explore with unrelated subquests, a living breathing world with NPCs having their "own" life, aka not only standing in one or two places 24/7 and so on.

I must admit i thought that ES3: Morrowind was extremely boring and felt very static. A huge world but a very boring one. This one seems to be the very opposite.

I especially liked the part where one DEV talked about the quests, they are going to adjust all stuff in the game to the skill of the player, a quests isn't a set difficulty but i.e. +3 to the level of the player. The same with all the stuff you get and so on. Sounds like a good idea to me, especially in such an open environment.


Here are a couple screenshots:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_s ... ots_01.htm

[Andrea B Previtera]

A "living breathing world" has been promised again and again.

I was sure that Morrowind was going to be breathing, but it didn't.
(Well, the graphics was stunning for the time, though)

I thought that Dungeon Siege was going to be breathing, but it didn't. (Yet, I must admit that the graphic was stunning for the time!)

I was promised that NWN was going to be breathing, but it didn't. (But I must admit the graphic was stunning for the time!)

Everyone trusted Origin with the fact that Ultima IX was going to... well, ok, I can't even talk about it anymore. What a disgrace.

Now there's oblivion. Oh, beatiful. But I don't trust promises anymore, I must say that the more "breathing" world I saw in a game in the last years is the Half Life 2's one. And we're talking of a FPS here. Anyway, let's check Oblivion: many promises, premium-quality graphics, but I can already "see" something (I hope I will be disproofed!):
- first person, no party.
- once again, a world divided into "inside" and "outside" areas
- click, click, click, slash, go on "à là doom" without ever casting a spell
- many, many unmoveable objects
- first person, NO party.
- first person, NO PARTY.

[eaterofspleens]

So, I take it you don't like first person?

Yeah, Oblivion could always turn out to be a big pile of turd, but early signs are promising. They are attempting to build on Morrowinds strengths whilst trying to fix some of the flaws. They might cock it up, but then again they might not.

"- first person, no party"

So what? Is the perspective a game is played from really such a critical issue? As for the party, sometimes I liked it, mostly it just felt like a bunch of mindless backpacks were following you around...

"- once again, a world divided into "inside" and "outside" areas"

True. Shame, hopefully NPCs and monsters will at least be able to follow you through doors this time.

"- click, click, click, slash, go on "à là doom" without ever casting a spell"

Eh? Where do you get that? Its true they are trying to improve the combat system, but they have also said they are working on improving magic (and stealth), so you can go through the whole game without picking up a sword.

"- many, many unmoveable objects"

Everything in morrowind could be picked up, although there were no physics to speak of. Oblivion will be using the same physics engine as Half Life 2, so I doubt that stuff will be immobile. Hopefully, there will be plenty of stuff which is interactive, not just "Ooh look, I can push the bottle off the table, but I wouldn't know how to begin drinking from it...".

[WhilGrey]

You might like the perspective or you might not, I think 1st person is way more immersive than 3rd person. It gives me a way better feeling of "being there". It is true those games you named had lots of flaws, but that doesn't mean there won't be a good game ever again It's like BobObo said, they might just do it right.

I didn't know the areas work with zoning from inside to outside, but that wouldn't kill the game for me. For me a great cRPG should have a great story and an immersive world and I don't see why this one shouldn't have both.

About those other games; I thought Morrowind had moon-like landscapes on release, not great graphics. I knew Dungeon Siege would be boring since they planed it to be another Diabloesque game. NWN never was supposed to be a great single player RPG and WAS great in multiplayer and especially in being able to create own adventures. Ok, U9's story sucked and I hated the NPCs but that doesn't count lol

I don't say this game will rock, I just noticed it and will wait for it to be released before I judge it. Don't see it from such a fan-boy-like perspective, or you might just miss a great game (or not )

[Andrea B Previtera]

I am just trying to comply with my "gratuitous rants per mont" quota Of course I'll play Oblivion, as I played all those others game.

Actually it's weird: technically I love RPGs, yet the only three I can say I enjoyed without any doubt, were Ultima 6,7 and Demon's Winter..

[eaterofspleens]

Well I'd pick ultima 6, 7 and daggerfall as the only ones I ever go back to, so two out of three's not bad...

[Gradilla Dragon]

I would like to see a party system. Daikatana was not all that great, but I loved to have two buddies covering me. Their AI wasn't that good, but at least I had two buddies.

Things have evolved much past that. Just look at the Unreal series.

I think if the TES4 team REALLY wanted to have a make system, they would make it. Useful companions aren't that hard achieve these days. I guess if we want that in TES4, we just need to poke the TES4 team on their ribs (send them our comments).

[drcode]

How about the Ultima Underworlds? They're among my favorite RPG's.

[WhilGrey]

Yeah, I had to think about UW, too. An UW like game in the outside, why not? It wasn't the ceiling that made those games fun.

[Andrea B Previtera]

I know that I love the party, and I love even more a user created party with occasional NPCs rather than a party of in-game NPCs built around a "main hero" like the Avatar.

Back in the days of Demon's Winter and such, a lot was left to your imagination (let me add a screenshot for the "younger" )



so often you found yourself writing the lines of those characters who consisted actually of nothing more than a few pixels and some stats. They never spoke or did anything else than walking, hitting and dying, so it was all up to you. The RPG was just a shell.

It's a bit like the difference between radio and television - the latter being undoubtely more beautiful and rich content-wise, but leaving practically nothing to your creativity. In the modern RPGs, so, you're just fiddling with this playground the coders and artists left to you. A user created party could at least create some diversions.

But again, I think it's just me sliding quickly to my third decade and moaning over the past

[Tristan de Inés]

I don't see why you make this big connection between a "living, breathing world" and a party system. As some have pointed out, the Underworld games where a living, breathing world. Gothic and Gothic 2 are hyperventilating worlds. These games are (with some exceptions in Gothic) solo-mode and In my opinion some of the best RPGs around.

Would you have liked U7 any less, if the Avatar had had no companions?

A "breathing, living world", in my humble opinion, should conform to two "laws":

First, it must allow as much player interaction with the world as possible.
Second, the world must seem to be "happening" even without the player.

[SB-X]

Can't really say I'd enjoy it without a party system. Yes I'd have liked U7 less without companions. Just because the developer decides he wants to call it "a living, breathing world" doesn't make it like Ultima. (don't forget the topic if this post)
I do agree with your two "laws" for that definition though. I could even take off the first rule and still consider it such.

That screenshot made me think of Wasteland. I'm sure some of you know of that?

[Neutronium Dragon]

The Ultima Underworlds were first person and no party, and they were hardly flimsy as RPGs.

Also, keep in mind that while Oblivion (and Morrowind) is being made for first person, you can go third person as well. (And I usually do, simply because it's easier to stay oriented in a 3D environment when you have a bit of 'peripheral vision', something you lack with a first person perspective on a flat screen...)

Neutronium Dragon

[Andrea B Previtera]

>Tristan: I don't see why you make this big connection between a "living, breathing world" and a party system


Because I don't make it.
The "breathing world" and "Party system" are clearly two distinct issues, which I didn't mix at all.

[WhilGrey]

Interessting point about the party and U7. I think I would have played U7 completely without any partymembers if that wouldn't have put me at a disadvantage in combat, giving me less inventory space and the feeling that I actually might miss any story-related conversation.

For me a party in an RPG means I get a couple combat-satellites (unimportant to me) and more complexity about equipping/skilling and stuff like that (which I like but don't need if the game isn't too simple overall.)

I had fun finding stuff for all party members, training them and so on, and I liked the rare occasions when they said something. But neither a party nor the perspective is what makes Ultima 7 a fun game to me.

The first Ultima I played myself was serpent Isle and I really liked the way I could wander around and also have a very interesting story on the one hand and really cool graphics and an interactive world on the other. That's at least what the oblivion designer are telling they are trying to create.