(Gradilla Dragon)Ultima and D&D

[Crassus]

Does anybody here play Dungeons and Dragons?

Right now im running a game for some people and am using the Ultima setting for it. Can I do a convertion (Table Top RPG) like Everquest or Warcraft the Rpg (non computer)? Can I convert it to role playing game mechanics, as well as legally can I. Some things dont seem to cross over very well; class based towns, virtue system, or the magic system. I'm having problems setting my canon for the setting. What things make a Ultima game? An avatar, virtue system or what?

Thanks in advance

Cam

[SB-X]

I havn't played D&D, so I can't be much help there.
What things make a Ultima game? How many Ultima's have you played?

[Crassus]

I have played III, VI, V, and IX. i was told to try here from this forum http://www.u5lazarus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1812.

[Alun Bestor]

Legally, noone is going to bother you unless you start actually publishing material. If it's just for your own group, then I don't see there is any legal issue. However, releasing PDFs of your conversion over the web is definitely on shakier ground.

As for how to convert it yourself...well, you're just going to have to make up your own mechanics for things like the virtue system (I don't see that it would be hard to implement...just don't try to shoehorn it into the D&D alignment mechanic or anything like that.) As far as magic goes, I'd say most of D&D's stock magic would fit right in - just ditch the spells that aren't really Ultima. And just use D&D 3.5's combat system entirely, because no Ultima has a combat system worth adapting.

You'll have to make your own mind up about what makes an Ultima game. I think the virtues are a big part of it, and a mechanic to show one's actual adherence to them would help as a fulcrum for the setting. The Avatar could very well be a prestige class, or at least Avatarhood could be (I'd steer clear of allowing *only one* Avatar, if you allow any at all...too much player competition.)

[Crassus]

Here is what I found some one doing so far.

Virtue Points

You can gain Virtue points in one of three ways: 1. The slaying of anything unvirtuous, 2. Good Virtuous behaviour during your travels and 3. Good roleplaying on the part of the player.

Using Virtue Points

Virtue points can’t be spent to increase attributes or skills directly, since that is done through training in game and in character (see "Gaining Attributes and Skills"). However there is one way to gain from being Virtuous, which is through your title and attribute points.

Virtue points Title Character points gained
-500 Dreaded -20
-400 Nefarious -10
-300 Wicked -5
-200 Vile 0
-100 Ignoble 0
-50 Notorious 0
0 none 0
50 Prominent 10
100 Reputable 10
200 Proper 10
300 Admirable 10
400 Famed 10
500 Great 20
1000 Champion of Virtue 50

Character points

Character points are points you can spend to raise either attributes or skills. You’ll notice behaving Virtuous helps your goal for ultimate numbers, while in the long run, being evil only undoes what you have strived to attain. Negative character points must be subtracted from your highest skills or attribute, as the magical ether which is shaped by the belief of Virtue wishes to punish you for your wicked deeds.

[Ethan]

If you're using D&D's engine, you're pretty much in the clear because of their "open gaming license" or whatever it is called. As far as using Ultima-related stuff is concerned, you are in the clear as long as you aren't selling it. Posting what you have online for free viewing would be legal.


Ethan

[Madoc]

For some reason, D&D players seem to think that everything within the game must have a rule - and every rule must have a more or less complicated table attached to it. I don't know why, but it seems that way.

I never had the impression that You get some score benefit in Ultima when being virtuous, so why inventing a table for it? - Moreover, the real evil villains in Your campaign then would suffer the mali of Your table, because they are so un-virtuous. How's that?

I think D&D is not the best basis for an Ultima tabletop RPG. Ultima tries to be fairly "realistic" about character development. Of course, magic is not really realistic, but in Ultima You won't ever become the physically invincible "Übermensch" that You are as a level 30 D&D hero. You can easily see this difference in paradigm when You compare the Ultima CRPGs with the old SSI AD&D CRPGs.

Also, while Ultima seems to have a very simple ruleset, D&D is one of the more complex RPG rule systems. This is because there are not many common rules, but instead tons of tables for everything. So maybe You better check out GURPS, or, if You like tables, Midgard or even Hârnmaster. For GURPS, You might take a look at the "GURPS Discworld" extension. Maybe You can easily adopt this world to Sosaria.

But I guess You want to stick to D&D. The magic system is not THAT different. Just forget about studying spells on a daily basis, and introduce mana points instead. You can model mana points similiarly to hit points, only that their amount depends on wisdom instead of constitution. And of course, they regenerate faster.

If You want, You can reflect the astrological rules of Sosaria. To do so, You might want to use the magic of AD&D Dragonlance as an example.

However, there will remain one difficult thing. Ultima quests are not about slaying monsters like D&D is. Ultima quests about being in the right place at the right time and doing the right thing. You can solve Ultima quests almost without killing a monster (at least in theory). In D&D, slaying monsters is THE part of the game. Only by killing villains, You can XP, and only by gaining XP, Your character can advance.

So, in order to refelect Ultima in D&D, I would suggest that You don't give _ANY_ XP for slaying monsters any more. Or - this would be better - invent a table giving the maximum number of XP per level that a character can earn by slaying monsters. Let's call this "combat experience". You divide the XP score into two parts: combat and adventuring experience. Both add up to the "D&D experience" score. Combat experience is limited. The limit is determined by the current level of the hero. As soon as he has reached the limit of combat experience, any combat experience gained in excess is lost. The other part, however, the adventuring experience, is unlimited. You gain it by performing good role play and solving quests.

Then Your players would "naturally" behave less D&D-like and more Ultima-like.

[Alun Bestor]

In fairness, D&D does include guidelines for story awards, and technically the experience-getting isn't about slaying monsters but Overcoming Challenges (of which there are just fairly clear-cut mechanics when the challenge is slaying monsters

GURPS might be a better bet, but I'd argue that the fact that the character creation system encourages you to micromanage your character's neuroses is not conducive to a high fantasy setting like Ultima. It does, however, cater for the sort of people (like me) who dig on baking bread for a living

I agree that actual character rewards for virtuous behaviour sort of undermine the virtue system as a whole. In particular, they lead to the problem of villains being inherently weaker and less able individuals than your good honest citizen - not a very workable situation if your main occupation is preying on the meek The internal consistency of such a rule would mean villains either die off completely or switch to being nice because the straight and narrow road is easier.

[Gradilla Dragon]

Whoa, a post with my name on the subject.

I worked out some conversion of Ultima to the D&D system some time ago. Most of the stuff is in spanish, though. Something I found oddl was that I created a samurai empire in one of the continents, to be surprised a year later with the announcement of UO Samurai Empire.

I will see if I can find my documents and send them to you, although I didn't write all of what I used. Some things stayed only in my head.

[Gradilla Dragon]

Forgot to mention, there is a guy who wrote something called "Britannia 3e". Personally I liked only parts of it, and implemented them in my campaign. I really hated some parts of that conversion(classes, spell lists, enemies, magic items...).

Also, I didn't mention I created my own magic system with reagents and mana. I converted most of the Ultima spells too. I made rules for determining a character's mana, and implemented a more flexible class system.

[Madoc]

Here You can find Britannia 3e:

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/britannia/

[Crassus]

You must be talking about 1st and 2nd edition in which you are right. Currently it is 3.5 edition and that is no longer the case. When TSR went belly up things changed. The new owners Wizards Of the Coast did something TSR never did, did customer research, and they found most people had the same complaint you have, and they changed it.