Ultima 7 HD?

T. J. Brumfield · Post by **T. J. Brumfield** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:59 am

People develop texture/model replacements for games all the time. I've never seen any come under fire for copyright infringement. EA has also never come down on an Ultima remake or mod that I'm aware of except for Peroxide's, and I think that was because there was potential to make it commercial.

I think the way to replace the graphics would be to divide it into chunks for each volunteer to work on, and release as you go along.

That being said, if you're really interested in playing U7 with nicer graphics, I think another approach would be to take Project Britannia and help with a U7 project based off that, or look to Realms of Ultima. They both provide an existing framework to develop a U7 remake with a better looking engine.

Frankly I replay U7 with Exult because I like the U7 interface and gameplay. I'd love nicer graphics.

I also want to echo what someone else pointed above that U7 could be expanded. The thing that I thought U7 lacked was better dungeons. Since Exult allows more multiple maps now, U7 could have better dungeons.

rprice · Post by **rprice** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:19 pm

/me waits for the Avatar in HD

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:26 am

Tangentially, I also felt the dungeons were overly small in U7. I intend to fix that as a part of TFL. I may also release it as a separate patch.

Cheers,
Wizardry Dragon

Nicodemus · Post by **Nicodemus** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:04 am

I'd be happy with new portraits for Black GAte...perhaps more SI style for all NPCs. But I'm pretty sure I know the probabilty of that happening.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:44 am

SI-style portraits for BG are also on the list, albeit in the "Nice but not worrying about doing if it becomes problematic" column

Cheers,
Wizardry Dragon

Guru Dragon · Post by **Guru Dragon** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:39 pm

I was hoping that you guys would propose this eventually. I'd love to help out with creating new high-res graphics for the game as well.

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:12 pm

I don't know sh*t about graphic designing, so I'm afraid I can't lend my help... but having an Ultima VII/SI with HD improved graphics would just be awesome !

-Sergorn

Gruck · Post by **Gruck** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:22 pm

I'm just curious how things are going with this project.

Post by **marzo** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:34 pm

I still intend to create the project, but am lacking the time for it right now (I have had very busy weeks since).

Herben · Post by **Herben** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:24 am

First off, nice efforts! If I had the slightest bit of artistic talent, I'd be happy to lend a hand but even my stick-figures end up crooked.

I had a simple thought on managing the project.. What about using CVS/SVN and checking in a file like BG_SHAPE_xxx.txt when you start working on a shape, so others don't waste their time working on the same shape? Once you're done, check in the shape file and delete the .txt. The daily snapshots could incorporate new gfx as they're added.

I was thinking that it would be cool if the shape used for moongates changed when the moongates are fixed after destroying the generator. For example having the gates look "erratic" in some way before and more stable after. I'm not signing anyone up for that though.

And though this is slightly off-topic, someone had mentioned that dungeons kinda suck in U7 and I have to agree. I didn't start playing Ultima until U6 and always thought the dungeons had a nice "subterranean" feel about them. I think perhaps part of the problem with U7 is the lack of a dungeon soundtrack. Maybe a remake of the U6 track and some eggs to start it playing in dungeons would resolve that issue? The gray/white coloring in dungeons is also kinda "blah", I suppose that might take away from the dankness as well.

Anyway, good work guys! I, for one, would be very pleased if this project comes about.

??? · Post by **???** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:26 am

^ The moongates disappear after destroying the generator. No, it's not a bug, it's part of the story.

Herben · Post by **Herben** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:31 am

Ahh, right you are! It's been quite a while since I played BG through to that point, for some reason I mis-remembered them as stabilising after the generator was destroyed but I guess I was thinking of the mages' minds.

Mike Mayday · Post by **Mike Mayday** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:44 am

Once the CVS is organized, I'm soooooo in on this. Doesn't matter if it gets ever finished.
You can check my website if you want any test of my skill http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/

olarin_ · Post by **olarin_** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:27 am

um... ultima 7 dungeons do have a soundtrack. a rather fitting one actually.

Pots Talos · Post by **Pots Talos** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:53 pm

I would love to help with this project. I don't have much graphic experience but if there is anything I could do to help just ask. I have TONS of free time.

Kristo · Post by **Kristo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:22 pm

Hi Guys!

I'm using a tool called reshade (latest version 1.5.1) for some time now.
The results are stunning in my opinion.

And after playing around with only! 2x resize of some Ultima Samples I suggest you take a slightly different approach to the HD thought:

All we'd need is the abilty to export and reimport all the graphics from Ultima.
Just give them a hint how to resize the graphics and tell them to take a look at Reshade.

Reshade lacks Batch Processing BUT: This is taken from their website:

"Batch processing will be available soon in Reshade 1.6. You will be able to resize as many images at a time as you need."

Just doubling the resolution looks amazing. Try it out with some objects and some background tiles and you'll see.

Cheers
Kristo

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:16 pm

Third: the combination of high resolution and higher bit depth will have a drastic increase in memory usage: changing to 3x scale multiplies size by 9; changing to true color + alpha multiplies it by 16; doing both multiplies size by 144(!). This would require an overhaul of Exult's memory management code for shapes since at present, they are loaded but not cached out except when changing games. Having 8.2 MB (BG) or 10.9 MB (SI) used by shapes is one thing (the originals); 73.8 MB (BG) or 98.1 MB (SI) (3x scale) is a heavier footprint, but acceptable; 131.2 MB (BG) or 174.4 MB (SI) (true color + alpha) is even heavier, but also acceptable; but 1180.8 MB(!) (BG) or 1569.6 MB(!) (SI) (3x scale + true color + alpha) is unacceptable by any standards (and remember that you still have to download the thing). It is true that U7 shapes compress well (~40%), but that would add decoding times to load (would not reduce memory footprint) or display the images (would slow Exult down to a halt).

I'm pretty sure your math is off on this. 3x scale does mean 9x memory (since there are two demensions, but adding true color+alpha is going from 8-bit to 32-bit, which is a linear, not 2d increase, resulting in only 4x memory (each pixel takes up 32bits instead of 8-bits, or 4x the size.)
This would make 8.2 X 9 X 4 = 295.2MB for BG and 392.4MG for SI . Still high, but nothing like 1600MB. 400MB is within the range available on most modern computers.

Post by **marzo** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:46 pm

Hm. You are right, I was wrong about the math. So maybe true-color+alpha is not completely off the table, then; now to solve all other problems.

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:34 pm

True color would be great! At times, I get tired of the limited 256 color palette.

richcon · Post by **richcon** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:27 am

Marzo:

I haven't looked at Exult's code, but it shouldn't be too difficult to calculate the day-to-night transition algorithmically. (That's definitely more feasible than creating four versions of each image!)

Basically just need to reduce each images' reds and greens and boost its blues.

Christian Edward Gruber · Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:25 am

As a quicker way to get the code changes done, could you not apply the existing scaler algorithms to all the tiles and create an initial set of HD tiles? They wouldn't look any better than the current game, but could be a base line for editing, and would allow the HD game to be delivered incrementally.

i.e.
Cycle-1
- pre-process the graphics through a tool that uses the scaler
- add code to the game to support larger tiles

Cycle-2
- update the moongates

Cycle-3
- update the terrain

Cycle-4
- update character graphics

Cycle-5
- update creatures

Cycle-6
- re-create fonts

...etc.

A parallel effort could be updating the music at the same time.

This would allow for regular releases, so people's attention would be rewarded by something new in a reasonable amount of time.

Or just say each cycle is two months, and the project gets as much done as it can, (after the first initial pre-processing phase), then just releases whatever it gets done my the milestone.

Just a thought. I'm very new to Exult. Looking forward to trying it.

Zacros · Post by **Zacros** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:32 pm

Very interested to see what comes of this... I might be able to assist with some of the design work, but it would definitely have to be in a limited capacity..

Regarding the music - I'm certainly not a musical arranger, however I do know some fairly professional arrangers and composers that I might be able to sweet talk into doing some commissions for either brass or concert bands.. I also know a couple of both types of bands that might be interested just for a bit of fun... Plus an organist or two for that Fellowship tune

hehe

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:03 pm

Just FYI, work on the "HD" music score has already begun... there's a thread on the board (Ultima VII Enhanced Soundtrack). HoppyDragon has done a few tracks.

I have completed one - Rudyom (Magic Tricks)

http://www.tedreedy.com/u7/Rudyom%20(Ma ... ricks).mp3

and have a few more coming over the next couple of weeks. I really love this stuff.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:07 pm

http://www.tedreedy.com/u7/Rudyom%20(Magic%20Tricks).mp3

Zacros · Post by **Zacros** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:08 pm

Nice...very nice!

shigzeo · Post by **shigzeo** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:45 pm

i am all hot all over. i do not have much time but would love to try and help in this. i am a design editor for a small magazine and have plenty of experience.

tedreedy · Post by **tedreedy** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:06 pm

Updated Enhanced Soundtrack with new track:

Wall of Lights

Also updated Magic Tricks with enhanced volume... was too quiet before.

http://www.tedreedy.com/u7/

tedreedy · Post by **tedreedy** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Updated Enhanced Soundtrack with new track:

The Fellowship

http://www.tedreedy.com/u7/

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:28 am

No offense, but... please, tell me the enhanced soundtrack will be optional.

Andrea B Previtera · Post by **Andrea B Previtera** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:09 pm

@Dac
Well, that *is* the way to sound offensive..
Anyway one of the main goals of exult has always been to give options. Optional scaling, optional audio packages, optional combat system, optional smooth scrolling, optional optional optional. So you know it will be... optional.

Zanyth-- · Post by **Zanyth--** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:18 pm

Wow, have to say I like the tracks you made tedreedy, refreshing

Vicente · Post by **Vicente** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:56 am

I'm an illustration aficionado and will soon study a couple of years of digital illustration, so I'd really like to contribute to this in some way, if the project ever takes off.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:10 am

Fantastic! This would be a great modification. Go for it.

DarkAvatar · Post by **DarkAvatar** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:23 pm

i really like the redone tracks too it sounds more vibrant than the originals do i like the fellowship one i'd have to say the original used to annoy me a bit but this one is just fine heh

trinket · Post by **trinket** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:04 pm

i willing to donate - AWESOME project.

trinket · Post by **trinket** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:13 pm

also, i do think that this needs all the publicity that it can get, if its still on the table. im sure there will be loads of people willing to help with getting this started

Sslaxx · Post by **Sslaxx** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:58 pm

Those soundtracks sound very, very good indeed! Nice stuff.

Alfonso · Post by **Alfonso** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:45 am

Amazing!!!

Mr. Swiveller · Post by **Mr. Swiveller** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:44 pm

Concerning updated graphics: would it be possible to convert Morrowind/Oblivion tga or dds files to a format Exult could use? I've created quite a few textures for Morrowind, and released many of them under a Creative Commons license.

URL to my Morrowind portfolio here: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/V ... il&id=7332

* Swiveller *

Danswan · Post by **Danswan** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:34 am

does someone have an alternative link to the HD tracks? the links ted put up give me 404 errors :/

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:42 am

You need an Art Tool for managing the lots of Tiles and GFX.

We coded a tool for our Iris2 project. Maybe you take a look at it to see what i mean.

http://ghoulsblade.schattenkind.net/iris/irisarttool/

http://iris2.de/index.php/Item_Model_List

Collaborative Development must be coordinated. This is the main important rule. Eveyone must know who is working on what.

PHP Code is also available.

Osvaldo Silveira · Post by **Osvaldo Silveira** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:27 pm

Hey Guys! I'm a huge fan of U7 and I'd really love to get into this project!

I'm into photoshop and I guess I can help with this redrawing stuff.
Just need the directions!

Please write me!

Best Regards

punknad · Post by **punknad** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:11 pm

What about this project? Does it start somehow?

Post by **marzo** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:53 pm

I intend to, but when I can spare enough time for it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:19 pm

Nice idea, but huge undertakings like these never seem to get done. Hope you prove me wrong on this one though.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:55 pm

The moongate looks awesome btw.

I think you should at least pursue the idea of recreating the first scene, even if its not complete it will give a good view of how the final product will look and if its worth the effort.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:23 am

I ... am sorry to be the one to crash the party here, but I'm afraid I should, or at least inform you of the legalities of the issue, which aren't in this case pleasant.

Any artwork made based on the original Ultima VII artwork would be a derivative work based on Ultima VII. That means that you would not have the copyright for the work, ORIGIN Systems and EA would, and since ORIGIN has folded, that means solely EA. In legal terms that means EA would be the one that would be able to distribute it, and not us.

Now that doesn't have to neccesarialy be the death of the project. But any artwork would have to be completely original, and that would raise a lot of problems regarding Ultima VII's iconics (Lord British, the Avatar, companions, moongates, etc...)

Just some food for thought.

Wizardry Dragon

Jayson · Post by **Jayson** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:53 pm

While that's true, it really means nothing. All of Lazarus is considered derivative work based on Ultima V, but it has been distributed for years. Yes, if EA wanted to they could request it not be distributed and seize the assets, but in reality it just isn't worth their time. There is no revenue being generated by this project, nor is it affecting EA's ability to create its own projects for this IP. You can always request a sanction from their legal department, but I doubt you'll ever hear anything.

Just keep working. If the day comes and they ask you to stop, well at least you've got something to show for it, and it might make Exult better down the road.

Crowley · Post by **Crowley** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:26 pm

One positive thing I have to say for Electronic Arts is that they seem to be very lenient about fan works based on their intellectual properties. How many attempts at Ultima remakes have there been by now, none of which have received a cease-and-desist from EA? There are also several fan projects going on around Wing Commander.

For an example of how bad it could be, Square-Enix has been quite vigilant about clamping down on any attempts at remakes of Chrono Trigger, and Hasbro shut down an attempt at a G.I. Joe fan mod for Operation Flashpoint very early on, if memory serves.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:28 pm

I consider the arguments made to be similar to those made in favour of abandonware - just because there's plenty of people that do it doesn't mean it's legal. You should be very careful about derivative works. I personally like marzos idea of sharing the tools or scripts used to make the graphics rather than the graphics involved as those scripts would be our ip.

Wizardry dragon