Exult 3d

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:07 am

Excellent work, Malignant Manor, I have been checking this forum, on and off, for years waiting for Exult 3D to be updated to a recent Exult.

Maybe this will stimulate some movement in the project. If the more serious runtime problems are addressed then that leaves the gruntwork of the 3D models for the rest of us to work on profitably.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:09 am

I presume the models are in the .mdl files.

How are they accessed?

Milkshape, which supports several different .mdl formats, does not recognise them. I think what is needed is a convenient way to transform these files to and from a more commonly supported format.... or do I need 3D Studio?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:13 pm

Try 3D Studio Max, I'm not sure if that would work but Sam has a screen shot of it with a bunch of shapes. The file extension used in the shot isn't mdl though.

Marzo fixed some major OpenGL issues but there are's a few more known issues that I would like worked out before the next release. I would like to explore one major problem in Exult 3D doesn't use a portion of the screen and doesn't find objects properly (open the cheat menu to see the good sized reversed "L" shaped chunk that is missing).

I will probably separate Exult 3D from the main OpenGL code so that it could be patched into the Exult SVN. It probably won't be released for awhile.

I'm also going to try and contact Sam about the missing features that are in the screenshots but not the releases (radial lighting and sky box).

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:17 pm

Great, thanks. You'll canvas him about file conversion and plugins too?

A search of old postings and logs suggests that he designed his own file format for models and wrote a 3D Studio Max plugin for it.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:03 pm

If I recall correctly, the main issue with Exult 3D from an engine standpoint was the viewport's possible distance exceeding how much Exult could efficiently pre-cache.

"Unofficially", one of my aims once TFL is playable start to finish, is to figure out the 3D source so that I could see TFL in 3D. I think it would be pretty awesome. But it's not something Im doing as part of TFL, nor is it something I think I'll get to soon.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

darrenor64 · Post by **darrenor64** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:07 am

Screenshots?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:27 am

Screenshots are at Sam's site. The skybox and radial lighting are concept alterations and don't currently exist.

I'm still trying to get the plugin from Sam and have asked Andrea if he still has his converter. Andrea may even be nice enough to make a new one if he can't find it. Sorry, it is taking so long.

Wizardry, I hope to have Exult 3D incorporated into the Exult SVN one way or another in the next few months.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:00 am

I'll probably end up rewriting a significant portion of Exult and some of the Ultima interface itself, if I do touch on the 3D engine how I want to. The 3D aspect would raise a lot of problems that I feel would need addressed if I did delve into it, for example a lot of the puzzles in the game would be extremely simplified by the game being in 3D.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

Post by **marzo** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:08 pm

for example a lot of the puzzles in the game would be extremely simplified by the game being in 3D.

Not to mention that there are many things that shouldn't be visible or accessible except by cheating which 3D allows seeing and reaching (such as a certain backpack in the SI endgame...).

R. Neil · Post by **R. Neil** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:59 pm

Very True. But this is an interesting thing nonetheless, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out

.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:12 am

Well, to be clear - I'm not saying I don't encourage people to work more on Exult3D - in fact, I'd love to see it worked on! My point is you're getting into more than graphics coding if you do so

R. Neil · Post by **R. Neil** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:32 pm

As would I

. Btw, I'm quite new to programming, but I'd love to get in on developing the Feudal Lands, is there a shot that I could help out?

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:36 pm

I followed this thread a long time.

Your Idea is the same as our with Ultima Iris (a full 3d Client for Ultima Online).

Started in 2003 we discontinued our first Ultima Iris Client, because of too much work on our own 3D Engine.

In August 2006 we started a completly new Client called Iris2. More abstract, using mostly Lua as scripting language and only some core features are implemented in C++ using the Ogre 3D Engine (one of the best 3D Engines i know).

Currently we have two Renderers a 3D (2D->3D conversation) and a 2D (and of couse a Null Renderer

.

We have more than 5000 Objects with Textures converted from 2D to 3D.

You should really take a look at our Iris Client.

Maybe it's worth for you to use it as Base for your Idea to bring Ultima7 to 3D.

http://www.iris2.de

I already wrote an on the fly mapconverter from Ultima7 Map to Ultima Online Map Format. It works but the Mapping of Ground and Object ID's is a lot of Work.

If anyone is interested in please write in our Iris2 Forum.

best Regards
SiENcE^Iris2 Team

Zanyth- · Post by **Zanyth-** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:52 am

It's been a while since I looked at Iris2, but it's looking amazing, I think I'd faint if I ever was able to play Ultima 7 using it as the interface;

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:34 pm

The trouble with Exult 3D is that the map files were specifically designed with a top-down view in mind. Yes, there is a z-axis, but there is extremely limited movement along it.
So it isn't simply the interface, but the very map files themselves which would have to be rewritten to take advantage of the new perspective; and if you're going that far, you might as well start from scratch.

I hate to say this, considering the difficult time the Pentagram team has had, but Ultima 8 is a far better candidate for this treatment, since then you at least have jumping and climbing, and may different layers on the z-axis.

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:19 am

Hey,

you are right. The Z-axis (heightmap) would be flat. But i think it's not that difficoult to add a selfmade heightmap to this as a new maplayer.

Most work would be as i sayed before the goundID mapping (grass for grass, aso.). If we have a converted groundmap, we can start to map ObjectIDs. I think this is hard too, but we already have nice wall,window etc. 3d models, so it should be not too hard.

when i have some time i will end my mapconverter and publish the source, because i don't have the time to go all the way alone

.

stay tuned

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:51 pm

Does anyone have the ability to update the Exult 3D code to work with the latest Exult SVN? It is a bit unfeasible for me and the original creator said that he might redo/update the code but hasn't delivered anything. (Heck, I still haven't gotten a graphics converter for his format.)

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:31 pm

Damn, I hoped you would succeed

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:37 am

Coincidentally, the new owners at Filefront deleted the files after giving a minute notice of less than 3 days in my spam folder. I thought I had the zips backed up but I don't. I'll have to compile with the almost complete 6048 source files and upload later.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:06 am

Exult 3D revision 6060b

I recompiled Exult 3D for Revision 6060 again since it was deleted and added the mouse ghosting fix and cpu reduction. I didn't bother to include diffs in the source since it is detrimental when trying to compare to the recent Exult code.

I've kind of figured out the problem with the mouse pointer not being accurate. For some reason, it only seems to be setup for scale x2, 300x240 only. I suggest using those settings. Full screen and windowed mode both work.

(edit by Dominus: I uploaded that version to our snapshot page SVN 6060 is now https://github.com/exult/exult/commit/2d168ef7)

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:28 am

One Tip. Take an existing free 3d Engine, so you don't have to invest time into existing techniques.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:13 pm

You missed the point of this...

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:16 am

He probably thinks OpenGL is something you say to get into a speakeasy.

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:34 pm

Nah, that's "swordfish".

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:54 am

>>You missed the point of this...

Which point?

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:16 pm

The point is that this isn't a remake, it's someone pipelining Exult's data into a new graphics client built using a 3D graphical API (it's OpenGL, isn't it?). It's actually vastly easier than, say, remaking the game from scratch using Dungeon Siege (and far more loyal to the original).

SiENcE · Post by **SiENcE** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:48 am

Do you know our Iris2 project?

As i explained earlier in this thread: we did already the same as you explained. We took the UO 2d Client and "pipelined" the original UO data into 3d. Lets say you have a map file and statics and you have art graphics. You need the mapfile and statics file to layout the world. But the real graphics, the 2d tiles are created from scratch in 3d (real 3d objects with textures).

We already have this working. Our research in that goes back to 2002-2003 with Iris1.

We started to create Iris1 with OpenGL. But after 4years we decided to quit Iris1 and restart from scratch.

You have lots of difficulties using plain OpenGL. No Material management, only OpenGL as renderer (opengl+windows+ati is a pain in the ass). You have no scene manager. No tools. No optimized mesh formats. No particle engine aso aos...

The 3d development is a lot faster than you can develop. Using an abstraction layer 3d engine is a lot more flexible then using plain OpenGL.

here you can take a look how Iris2 looks with old 2D UO graphics using our 2d Renderer and how it looks with our 3d models using our 3D Renderer:

http://schattenkind.net/blog/?p=135

dag · Post by **dag** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:17 pm

Exult 3D is completely written in Delphi. If I remember it right, it's Deplhi 7, but it could also be Delphi 6, which isn't much of a difference.

This, too, makes me think D3D was used. (As my memories do.)

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:03 pm

Exult 3D uses OpenGL. The source looks like it was written in C++. (and is a patch to Exult.)

Post by **marzo** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:56 pm

Exult 3D is completely written in Delphi.

Not in this universe, no; just C++ using the OpenGL API.

dag · Post by **dag** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:13 am

Oh sorry, I thought there were some screenshots with the Delphi7-icon in the top left corner -- well, I was wrong

Andrea B Previtera · Post by **Andrea B Previtera** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:58 pm

@dag

That's Ashes (now officially frozen for possibly ever): Delphi + OpenGL

http://www.lalista.org/ashes/shots.php

dag · Post by **dag** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:53 pm

Yes! That's what I was thinking of! Sorry again for this...!

Jammet · Post by **Jammet** » Wed May 04, 2011 6:19 am

Is there any news on this? U7 in such an engine, I mean? The actual Exult 3D. Looks like it came and went. It looked so promising

.

Post by **Dominus** » Wed May 04, 2011 6:33 am

It went (and the engine was actually Exult just modified).

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:07 am

It works... a tad.

It needs more 3d models and also the controls need major adjusting. It is neat to play around with though!

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:46 am

Beavering away at 3D models would have been a pleasant diversion, but last time I looked I couldn't find any tools for the project. The 3D data were in an obscure format with no format converters or plugins.

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Thu May 05, 2011 8:08 pm

I can't recall exactly and could be wrong, but I think that the Exult 3d models used whatever format Quake II used.

1crash007 · Post by **1crash007** » Sat May 21, 2011 12:43 am

I can make models for this project i just
need reference numbers to know what is what?
Does anyone have a list of the numbers?

And they are Quake 2 mdl files
which makes animations hard cause its a vertex type
of animation used.

Andrea B Previtera · Post by **Andrea B Previtera** » Sun May 22, 2011 4:30 pm

I damn myself cause Sam ages ago sent me the 3d models' source (a huge 3ds MAX file), but I lost it.

@Joe Lerno
Why would be animation hard with vertex-based models? It's a very simple linear interpolation between frames, actually it would probably fit into the Exult engine a LOT easier than any kind of skeletal animation code.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:49 pm

Sure, they are called .mdl files, but have you been able to open them. I certainly couldn't.

1crash007 · Post by **1crash007** » Sat May 28, 2011 7:49 pm

I think i know of some plugins when i find them i will put up a link..

1crash007 · Post by **1crash007** » Sun May 29, 2011 9:34 pm

Ok so i tried several quake programs..
The main one i used was Quake ARmy Knife (Quark)
It opens three different mdl formats
Quake/ Half-Life1/Half-Life2/HexenII
The only one that showed promise was the Half-life1 import.
It needed a proper gamedata folder structure..
Any Quake mdl viewer says incorrect mdl type.

The only mdl importer to try is one on bleneder for neverwinter
nights mdl files.