Pentagram still alive?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:44 am

Read the first F.A.Q.

JC Denton · Post by **JC Denton** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:03 pm

I read FAQ at http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/faq.php , but didn't find anything that could answer my question above. Or am I missing something?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:09 pm

It's spelled out pretty clearly in 1.1, "Right now we do not support them".

JC Denton · Post by **JC Denton** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:26 pm

Yeah, I read that part. I didn't expect to be able to play the game, but rather to experiment. As I said - saw some screenshots, and felt the urge to ask how.

Anyway, no big deal. I was just hoping that there's an easier way for us to try and make a new Crusader game (currently we're using GameMaker 8 and writing our own stuff).

Thanks anyway!

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:36 pm

I have no idea how much work still needs to be done on Crusader compatibility. I looked at the change log and the last mention of Crusader is about 4 1/2 years ago. If your team has actual coding skills, then it would probably be much better contributing to Pentagram.

(I don't even have Crusader.)

JC Denton · Post by **JC Denton** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:17 pm

Well, I'm not much of a programmer. I'm the guy in charge of graphics and animation. My "job" is to extract original resources from .flx files, and then import them in GameMaker by creating sprites and animating them (original animations + some custom stuff...). Also, I'm doing some additional writing and helping craft a storyline.We have one "full time working" programmer, and few other guys who are willing to help... Anyway, the whole project is in very early stages of development, and currently we're working on a tech demo which will focus on movement and interaction with objects.

If I understand correctly, Pentagram project is all about running Ultima VIII engine-based games on modern systems. What we are doing is creating a whole new game (new engine, new story, levels,...), so I don't see how it would be better for us to dedicate our time to Pentagram Project.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:05 pm

Pentagram is a new engine that can use the original game files directly. Your use of the original resources is a big no no. Of course, YoYo games doesn't really care and would host it anyway unless it got a cease and desist order.

Pentagram likely needs a lot of work to run Crusader or create a similar game. You'd also have to make a map editor anyway. I have no idea how creating a similar game in GameMaker would be. GameMaker games also seem much more resource intensive than needed and have much less platform support than SDL.

JC Denton · Post by **JC Denton** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:37 pm

As I said - my programming skills are a bit rusty, so I left that part to some other guys who are better than me in that department. We're already thinking about using some compression methods and some other ways around some of the performance issues.

As for using original resources and potential copyright infringement problems, we had that discussion pretty much right at the beginning of our project. We intend to create a free fan-game, using resources from 15 years old DOS game which hardly generated any profit for EA for the last 10+ years, so we hope that no one cares.

Anyway, we'll probably send an e-mail to EA and formally ask for their permission.

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:25 pm

Hey, it´s me again with another problem... So, I started all over a new game cuz the sorcery issue was hard to solve, but it was OK... So, suddenly, in the middle of the game, pentagram starts to crash! As I walk throught Tenebrae the game crashes with no explanation! I´ve emailed the savegame to wjp but got no answer, so I presume he is busy with something else and probably not acessing emails or I was dumped to spam or else... Lol! Anyway, anyone here could help? Thankz

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:30 pm

Anyone?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:47 pm

Is it only one crash or is it repeatable? If it is repeatable, then post a bug report, with information about your operating system and how to repeat it. Then attach the save file.

What do you mean by crash? Does it close the program? Is there an assert error? Does the program freeze? If it seemed to freeze, can you save the game and reload? There is a known bug where the Avatar will no longer move but the game is otherwise fine.

If it's not repeatable, unless you have some really good information, it likely won't be fixable.

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:31 pm

Yeah, it is repeatable, its just walk around tenebrae and the game closes... I can send the savegame, but im having trouble using the link, could u direct me a email? thnx

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:15 pm

Send the saved game to the address in my profile. I will add a bug tracker for it. I didn't realize Pentagram trackers had been closed to anonymous posters. What operating system are you using?

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:15 pm

Windows 7...
I´ll send it now, open the game, recall to central tenebrae and walk to east tenebrae, for exemple... You will see what I mean... Thanks

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:37 pm

Unfortunately, I can't even test to confirm the crash since my version of Ultima 8 is 2.13 (came patched) and yours is 2.12. I setup a bug tracker though.

Corpsecrank · Post by **Corpsecrank** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:48 am

I think there is a version of 2.12 online for download and since you own the game it would be legal for you to download a copy of it. You may want to consider keeping an older copy around just for testing purposes.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:10 am

It's not legal to download even if you own the game. You would have to have written permission from the current rights holder (EA) or buy it. The patch will not change 2.13 to 2.12.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:30 pm

Having copies of a game you own is permitted by the EULA: one for backup purposes only, that is. However, only Electronic Arts has distribution rights to the program. Any other entity distributing it, is doing so illegally.
--------
Peter M Dodge
aka Wizardry Dragon
www.thefeudallands.ca

paulo · Post by **paulo** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:57 pm

Any plans for a exult game studio like editor? U8 is a game that would benefit quite a lot from a "expansion mod". The lost valley, the strange broken dialogs, the truth spell plotholes, freeing hydros having no consequence to devon, the birthplace of moriens in the wrong place and without anything of interest there, no extra earth promised spells etc etc etc.

Doppelganger · Post by **Doppelganger** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:27 am

Im going to sound like a complete noob for the first time in a while, but I bought a new copy of U8 and downloaded Pentragram and can't get it to work on Win7! Both installed fine, but I can't figure out how to get Pentragram to recognize where i have the U8 source files.

Please, what files to I need to move where to get Pent and U8 linked? Should I reinstall in certain directories or in a certain order?

Thanks, Ultima Fan

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:48 am

Which version of u8 do you have? A CD version just needs to be put somewhere on your computer, then follow the documentation http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/docs.php#Configuration
Though in the case of W7 the location of the ini might be different.

Doppelganger · Post by **Doppelganger** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 am

Thanks for the response. I only have the original Ultima VIII right out of the gold box, as I cannot update either. Im having a much rougher time updating and running this game that most others! I can get it running in DOSbox fine, but its choppy

I cannot patch it, but thats a whole other story and why im trying Pentragram first. THe directions on the Pentragram site seemed somewhat vague to me and only said "Pentagram needs a pentagram.ini file to point it to the game data files. In Windows, it has to be in the current directory"

What directory? do I just need to move the ini file? all of them? ugh lol

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:21 am

Yeah, sorry, that guy writing the documentation needs some serious working over

The ini should bein the pentagram folder, where you installed pentagram to (c:/program files/pentagram).
Problem is you need admin rights to write to it, that's something that needs to be fixed eventually. Alternatively there is some other folder it can be savedto andread from in your userspace but I need to check my W7 virtual machine.

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:26 pm

The best way is to point the pentagram installer to the correct U8 folder, it saves the location in c:\Program Files\Pentagram.pentagram.ini (if you installed to the default folder).
BUT since this is read only and you messed before you have another copy of that file in c:\users\YOURUSERNAME\Appdata\Local\VrtualStore\Program Files\Pentagram\ (this is also where your savegames end up in).

doppelganger · Post by **doppelganger** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:15 pm

Ok thanks guys. ^ No offense with the difficulty, because I know some of you guys work on Pentagram

I will try that and see if Pent recognizes it when I launch it. I'm just looking for a smoother experience than the choppy hack job im getting in dosbox.

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:26 pm

Hmm, with a modern system U8 runs fine in Dosbox. And why can't you patch it?

Doppelganger · Post by **Doppelganger** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:14 pm

Oh man, thats a whole other problem. Seriously, I am computer literate but this episode makes me feel like im trying to fly a stealth bomber for the first time. Ok, heres whats up with trying to patch the original....

Originally, whenever I tried to patch it in DOSBOX (or even actual win32 dos from a reboot) it gives me some error and says "arguments incorrect. Check patch parameters." Then after some toying around I progressed to it recognizing the patch location and I am not getting this "There is no version of Ultima VIII in C:\ULTIMA8\", which is a lie. DOSBOX is a liar.

I downloaded the newest legit patch. Placed it in the Ultima8 folder on C:Then I ran it in dosbox with the C: drive mounted and thats what its telling me. Thats why i've been trying Pentagram..

Doppelganger · Post by **Doppelganger** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:47 pm

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:11 am

Dosbox is not a liar unless your folder looks like c:/ultima8/ultima8

You need to learn how dosbox works before calling it such.

Dosbox "sees" only what you mount. When you "mount c c:/ultima8", dosbox has a c: drive with the CONTENT of c:/ultima8.
So things to try:
- u8patch c:/
(don't forget the slash)
- put ultima8 in the folder c:/games, then "mount c c:/games" in dosbox then cd to the ultima8 folder (c: & cd ultima8) and try again with the patch, this time there is a C:/ultima8

Doppelganger · Post by **Doppelganger** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:31 am

You're right, and I tried both actually. A few lines up it will shows the other result. It tells me "You must run U8PATCH in the current directory!" which appears to make no sense. I also tried U8patch c:\, and tried reinstalling the game to G: and mounting that one.

I really appreciate your help thus far, do you know of any other way to run this patch? Compatibility mode doesn't work, dosbox doesn't run it, win32 mode doesn't run it, and can't run it in win7. Oddly enough I can run the original game from dosbox with U8.

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:28 am

the patch works fine in Dosbox. I think you made a mistake when you unzipped the patch.
Do this:
- put c:\ultima8 in c:\games (move the whole folder, not just the files)
- redownload the patch, it should be a zip file called u8patche.zip (for the English version or u8patchf.zip, u8patchg.zip for French and German)
- unzip that to C:\games\u8patch
- start Dosbox and type the following
mount c c:\games
c:
cd u8patch
u8patch c:\ultima8

Doppelganger · Post by **Doppelganger** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:12 pm

Holy shat, I got it to work. You hit the nail on the head, not all of the patch files were in the U8 directory and that was causing the problem. I appreciate the help and game on!

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:00 pm

I am trying to compile and install Pentagram SVN on my 64bit Ubuntu PC but I am kind of a noob at this and the process fails when I try to make the makefile. I followed the instructions at http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/docs.php. Before compiling I downloaded and compiled the following libraries: GUIlib-1.2.1.tar.gz, libpng-1.2.46.tar.gz, SDL_image-1.2.11.tar.gz, SDL_mixer-1.2.12.tar.gz, DL_net-1.2.8.tar.gz, SDL_ttf-2.0.10.tar.gz, SDL-1.2.14.tar.gz, zlib-1.2.5.tar.gz.

In the middle of the make process I get the following error messages and the process quits:

filesys/OutputLogger.o: In function `OutputLogger':
/home/[username]/pentagram/pentagram/pentagram/trunk/filesys/OutputLogger.cpp:90: undefined reference to `SDL_CreateThread'
filesys/OutputLogger.o: In function `~OutputLogger':
/home/[username]/pentagram/pentagram/pentagram/trunk/filesys/OutputLogger.cpp:103: undefined reference to `SDL_WaitThread'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [tools/disasm/disasm] Error 1

What am I doing wrong? Is it a problem with 32 bit and 64 bit compatibility? do I need to install the sdl libraries in /usr/lib32? Is Pentagram a 32bit program? Or did I forget to install some libaries? I am sure I am not the only one with this problem so if somebody could walk me through this process I would be very welcome. Thank you.

Post by **Dominus** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Sounds as if it can't find the SDL stuff. You wrote you compiled all the libs, did you also install them (make install)?

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:00 pm

Yes. I compiled and installed these libs. Am I missing any libs? Like I said I am a noob, so any help is appreciated. Thanks for responding so quickly! I felt like I had hit a brick wall. I am eager to try out Pentagram in Ubuntu.

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:35 pm

edit: I compiled but did not install SDL_net because of some error, but that was not listed as a requirement for Pentagram. Also I am using Ubuntu 11.10 and I have previously installed 32bit SDL libs for use with old Loki games. Is it possible there is some kind of conflict with the older installed libs?

Post by **Dominus** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:40 pm

that may be. Honstely I have no idea as well. I'm not using Linux, I can only say that it compiles fine on 64bit OS X...

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:46 pm

I guess I should try installing a fresh chroot and re-install everything there.

Post by **Colourless** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:56 pm

Guessing you compiled SDL without threading.

Post by **Dominus** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:04 pm

Aren't you supposed to install those libs+dependencies through a package manager on Linux? Especially when you define yourself as noob.

Either way, I'd wait a few days and then install (manually or by a package manager) SDL 1.2.15 which is about to be released any moment now.

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:38 pm

I went back and installed all the sdl libs through the package manager. (What is "threading"?) I rebooted the computer. Which is an AMD64 Dual Core. My OS is Ubuntu 11.10 64bits. I redownloaded the pentagram SVN and in the 'trunk' directory I ran ./bootstrap, ./configure, make. Same result

I got frustrated with Pentagram and tried the 1.5.x Exult svn release. It also failed on 'make.' I got these error messages at the end:

make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode'
Making all in compiler
make[3]: Entering directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode/compiler'
/bin/bash ../../ylwrap ucparse.yy y.tab.c ucparse.cc y.tab.h ucparse.h y.output ucparse.output -- yacc -d -v
../../ylwrap: line 109: yacc: command not found
make[3]: *** [ucparse.cc] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode/compiler'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn'
make: *** [all] Error 2

Maybe the failure of both Exult svn and Pentagram svn is related? Like I said before I have previously installed the 32 bit sdl libraries for use with old games. Could that be the reason for the failure? Or am I missing something else?

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:27 am

Install yacc or bison or flex. I think one of those solves that problem.

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:01 pm

no. instlaling yacc and bison and flex didn't help. i'm sorry for posting so many comments on the same topic and it's probably some failure of mine to install all the right libs in the right order or something. Pentagram is still bleating over SDL_CreateThread and SDL_WaitThread and Exult wants me to "Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in Makefile.am" but I don't know where to add that. My next step is to install a clean 64 bit chroot and reinstall sdl, libtools, autogen, autoconf, etc on the new chroot. But I am not sure I can use the package repositories for that. So, can I have any suggestions as to what all libraries, etc I should install on a brand new root to compile the svn of pentagram or exult?

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:24 pm

ignore the "Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in Makefile.am"
You might need to run bootstrap and configure for Pentagram again and make clean before trying again.

for a clean prefix
-autoconf
-automake
-freetype
-libogg
-libvorbis
-libpng
-libtool
-m4 (maybe?)
-pkgconfig
-SDL
-SDL-ttf
-zlib
and maybe some other dependencies of freetype or so.

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:37 am

I've uninstalled and reinstalled the Exult 1.5.x svn several times to start over and tried to recompile it and reinstall it without success. Then I used the Ubuntu package manager to install the Exult in the repositories which is supposed to be version 1.2-15. Now when I run Exult it reports version 1.5.0 instead of version 1.2. Huh, strange.

Is there any possibility of adding a preliminary version of Pentagram to the repositories, or at least somebody coming out with a linux binary release of a recent snapshot? I'm having no luck with it in ubuntu.

oneismany · Post by **oneismany** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:41 am

Update: I think I got Exult svn working right. Now Pentagram svn fails on a different error, so I may be making progress. I must have installed or removed something important, perhaps it was when I ran 'sudo aptitude build-dep libtool' and it installed something (glide?) and uninstalled automake1.9 which I assume is old.

Quote:

pentagram.cpp:64:1: fatal error: opening dependency file ./.deps/pentagram.d: Permission denied
compilation terminated.
make: *** [pentagram.o] Error 1

Now I am stumped again.

Post by **Dominus** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:38 am

Yes permission problem caused by sudo.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:49 pm

he he,
now I realized that my "working" Pentagram snapshot machinery was failing since December when Colourless added OutputLogger... Similar problem as yours

Fish · Post by **Fish** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:16 pm

Hi,

I encountered some of the problems reported here during the build process of the current Pentagram.

I have uploaded a tiny patch which should fix the few minor glitches following
the addition of OutputLogger.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=471708

Keep up the good work on the Exult and Pentagram projects, they are both a really amazing piece of code.

Post by **Dominus** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:03 pm

I'll see about integrating your patch since this annoys me a lot and lacked the knowledge to fix it.
Thanks a lot.
Ideally we should find a way to have our command line tools NOT depend on SDL ...

Btw, apologies to oneismany for not realizing his valid problem...