I was wondering: how do fans feel nowadays about Ultima

[Dominus]

I'm sure he wants the IP back and I'm sure he wants to remake U8 + U9, I'm also sure he won't get the IP back and even if by some miracle EA would sell it back, he'd still need funding for those remakes. And who would fund him a remake? It took a while to get to the 2.5 Million founding of SotA and that is a new game.
SotA is still supposed to be a single and multiplayer game. How that is going to play out, who knows but people funded that and thus he needs to fulfill that

[Ruiz]

Wow, so many nostalgiafags in this thread.

"3d iiiz teh suck! 2d all teh w4y!!11!1!one!!"

Grow up. Seriously.

[Dominus]

Thanks for your valuable input, feel free to keep it to yourself from now on

[SLobbeybob]

I forgot my password so yeah.....

Anyway Just to mention you guys should chechk out all of the interviews that spoony did with Richard Garriot.

[Dale]

The first one I ever played was Ultima 4 back when the 4-6 collection came out. I still look back at it as one of the best games I've ever played.
I've truthfully only ever really played 4, 5, 7s, 8, and 9. Yes, the missing 6 is not an accidental omission. Not sure why...
While I look back on 4 with immense fondness, I haven't played it in a good 10 years. 7s on the other hand.. I want to play them NOW! I was a little heartbroken when my last playthrough of the 7s came to a halt when I hit a bug in SI. Still.. every couple years I can't help myself. They are perfect!

The whole Exult community blows me away. I just keep hoping any one of the whole game mods gets completed so I can play an all new 7. The add-on mods are great, too.
The engine just fits like a glove. I want to play EVERY GAME remade in its format. I have a similar feeling for Final Fantasy Tactics. I want them to make more games with the engine from the original, but I know THAT will never happen. With Exult, it DOES happen with 7.

Keep up the good work. I always look forward to a future where I can explore these huge worlds with all new weapons and items.

[Gotcha!]

Well, Dale, you can start playing Ultima 7 now, because, as one who just finished Ultima 7 and Serpent Isle, I can say that the latest Exult works fine indeed. ^_^

As how I feel about Ultima... I can't really say anything about Ultima 1-6 and 9, since I never played them. The graphics and small screens kind of turn me off.
But I grew up with Ultima 7 and 8 and still play them once every few years. When it comes to Ultima 7, there's no other game like it out there (although Bethesda's games come close, with their open worlds and scheduled npc's).

I seriously wish Ultima 8 and 9 were made with the same engine.

[Gunther2]

What U9 needs, is a better plot and a remake. Still hoping that Project Britannia comes up with something like this, though from what I heard they are currently bussy with remaking U1-3

What U8 needs, is a better range detection, jesus christ. Pentagram makes this playable (thank you for the Jumping error, btw (for people that have no idea what I'm talking about, when you jump from one rock to another in that water area, for some reason I'm standing in the middle of the water. In other words, when playing it in Pentagram, The Avatar is a bit like Jesus, but only in caves) thankfully.

Although I have to say I removed the game after 5 days, because I almost fell asleep when playing this thing. U8 is really dull and nothing compared to the other ones.

Then again, it's an EA production, so what ya expect?

[Gotcha!]

Yeah, Ultima 8 was a shame. Nevertheless, I played and finished the game many times. Call me nuts.

The jumping bit was fixed way before Pentagram came looking by the way. Origin released a very important patch to fix that. But I am proud to say that I once finished Ultima 8 pre-patch. x) A horrifying experience.

[Dale]

I keep wanting to go back and replay U8, but my last two attempt have been thwarted by frustrations of one kind or another. Still.. in my head, it's a cool game. I like the variety of weapons and magic. The side quests were actually pretty neat, if memory serves... It just always seems that reality is a bit different.

[Gotcha!]

U8 is a game I love to hate and hate to love.

Weapon variety is non-existent. You only have melee weapons.
Magic... magic is a sore. Earth magic (Necromancy) requires a bag with reagents and a key to create tokens which then would invoke the spell.
The spells that that wizard sells are a bit the same, but cost a LOT of money.
And the fire spells... needing a floor pentagram, setting up and removing candles, putting down reagents that'd never seem to be in just the right spot... All for a wand or rod with limited charges or a token with only one charge.

Sidequests are almost non-existent. There are two. One would get you a magic armour which would be obsolete very quickly, due to two other magic armours being around, which are more powerful and more easy to get.
The other sidequest... if you could call it that... leads to the Slayer and wasn't much of a quest at all. You tumble down in a hole and on your way out you can grab it, basically.

Still, being alone in a land without any of the virtues the Avatar holds so dear and people around who are just very, VERY unpleasant... I can't help but like the terrible feeling the game gives. (Yes, I'm weird.)

[TDI]

I like U8. It can't be compared to other Ultimas, but it has great music and atmosphere, in a bleak, melancholic kind of way. Ironically, the monochromatic gameplay, fastidious difficulty and lack of features agree with the overall desolate theme of the world of Pagan. Pagan is a dying world, just as Ultima 8 is the death of the Ultima series. The Avatar himself is destroying it, under the pressure of the Guardian, like Origin Systems destroyed Ultima, under the pressure of EA. U8 is like a monument to the end of Ultima. It's worthwhile playing it, if you can stand the morbidity of it all.

If you ask me, Britannia was not under attack. The Guardian was just bluffing with the goal of provoking the Avatar into action, thereby abandoning his virtues. At the end of U8, when the Avatar appears in his shining armor of virtue, it is the Guardian parading him in mockery. The final sequence reveals that the Avatar has been summoned to the Guardians home world. The Guardian has won.

So in addition to being the death of the Ultima series, U8 is the end of the Avatar.
And U9 is a delirium induced nightmare the Avatar is having under torture.

[TDI]

This was softened up with the patch, but from the beginning U8 is just a death trap for the Avatar, which it -really- is.

[Dale]

Yeah... the mood in U8 was really awesome. This just makes me want to play it again! Man was that game a bummer.... (I like that). It was a nice change that no one gave a @!#$...
Shame the gameplay was complete garbage.

That's a really interesting take on U8/U9, TDI! In fact... I wish it were all intentional! Can someone remind me what happened at the end of 9? I seem to recall the point of the game being to clear out these towers that were corrupting the virtues...?

So allow me to explain my statement about liking the weapons and magic in U8.
While you are absolutely right that there is far less weapon variety in general, what I meant, rather, was the abilities of the magic weapons had more variety (and weren't mostly just swords). + damage to undead, chance to kill on strike... things like that. I also liked that there wasn't 50 of each magic weapon to be found, but I guess that relates more to U8 being largely linear. The weapons available in SI:SS were really cool, but it was all so clumped together (for obvious reasons). THAT kind of thing. My one big wish for all the mods coming out is that some unique weapons get dumped around the world.
The first time I played U7, I was in love with the quest to find the Hoe of Destruction. Really cool! But it doesn't really have any properties that make it THAT special in the end.
I hope that made sense.

The magic I guess I am just looking back and remembering it being neat. When I think about it, I remember the reality being FAR more frustrating. I remember the pentagrams being an absolute nightmare. I will gladly retract that statement with the exception of saying that it was neat that the methods were all so varied.

I doubt I've played through that game since 95ish. Hmmmm..

[Gunther2]

"Can someone remind me what happened at the end of 9?"

The Avatar uses the Armageddon Spell on himself and The Guardian and dies. I believe there's a vid about the ending of U9 somewhere on Youtube.

[Dominus]

I liked the idea of the different magic systems in U8 - everything being a bit more of a bother than the U7 system (spellbook and reagents). It certainly wasn't flawless and at times it was cumbersome but the idea was neat.

[TDI]

For all I know, that take on U8 could actually be the real deal. I recall that before U9, Origin stated that in the end of U8 the Avatar appears at the Guardians home world. And really, practically everything the Avatar does during U8 is messed up. Life is not great on Pagan, but the inhabitants have managed to arrange themselves with the titans.

Then the Avatar comes along and things quickly go from bad to worse. He submits to Lithos and his bloody rituals to rise among the Necromancers. He frees the two seriously evil Titans from captivity. Ruthlessly rises to the top of the Sorcerer hierarchy through murder and betrayal. Again, betrays the Theurgists by destroying the nicest of the Titans, killing Stellos and stealing the healing powers in the process. He removes the evil Mordea and installs the benevolent Beren, but then, before he can finally do some good in the world, the Avatar betrays him by freeing Hydros who intends to kill Beren, something which sadly was not followed up further in the game.
Even some of the NPC's express clear misgivings about the Avatars goals and motivations.

And all of this the Avatar does to become all powerful, so he's no better than the Guardian. Sure, he is motivated by the desire to save Britannia, but all he has is the Guardians word, and saving one world by destroying another is pretty messed up morals.

When the Avatar finally reaches the etherial plane, he is surrounded by symbols of death and walks into a portal of ghosts and demons. After all of this it makes zero sense to parade the Avatar in virtuous armor, unless it is pure sarcasm. And in the final sequence the Guardian laughs right into the Avatars face.

[Gotcha!]

The idea was indeed neat. I like crafting in games and making staves and wands is a very nice idea.
It would have been great to see it in Ultima 7. Ultima 8's engine is so poor that it doesn't really work well there.
This reminds me; why didn't Ultima 7's creators add some spell to recharge those wands? >_>

@Dale: The weapons in Ultima 8... It's true the magic ones all had some sort of bonus, but only one shows an on-hit effect (I think it's Flamesting) and one shows an effect on death (Slayer). That's it.

And unfortunately the bonuses weren't really that much of a deal. Once you get the Deceiver and Flame Sting, you can toss away all other weapons, due to these weapons doing the largest amount of damage.
(And even then it takes a dozen hits to kill a ghoul.)

Oh gawd, EA, why couldn't you bugger off and leave Origin alone... -_-
/melancholic

[Dale]

Oh you're absolutely right. I'm not saying that the weapons were the pinnacle of creativity or anything. I just think similar aspects being incorporated into some of the U7 mods would be amazing. More interesting magic weapons would be amazing.

As I said.. it's been well over a decade since I last played it, but I remember using the Slayer the most in U8. While it was definitely out-powered by other weapons, the instant kill was nice. As you mentioned.. 12 hits to kill a ghoul? Well at a 10% chance of killing, you SHOULD be able to do them in 10 if you roll successfully.

Oof. I am really itching now... remembering how twisted that story got at times? I like that. I just have to talk myself into dealing with the horrible game play..
AND now that I think about it, I bet that disk is also long gone. Bummer. Not exactly the game I feel most inclined to re-buy.
How does that U8 Exult work? Is it pretty good?

[Dominus]

Pentagram is very *raw*, you can play through but it's not polished at all. Worst of it is that one of the devs decided to redo the input controls. Unfortunately he never finished it and thus Pentagram has no arrow controls for movement and other shortcomings ;(
On the plus side you can use better fonts and scalers...

[Dale]

Yeah and that's pretty much a dead project, huh? Hmmm. Anyone have much success playing it without Pentagram? I reckon it would be playable with DOS Box...

[Dominus]

It is playable with dosbox.

[Colourless]

When we first started playing around with Ultima 8 and started experimenting and then developing Pentagram it was impossible to play Ultima 8 with Dosbox and the hack to run it in Windows made it virtually unplayable too. Would be nice to polish Pentagram up a bit at some point though. Probably the biggest advantage that Pentagram would ever have vs Dosbox is we can tweak the controls to make the game more responsive and just play better. Minor graphics improvements like better font are nice too. We can fix bugs too, but at the moment probably have introduced more just because of slight differences in engine behaviour causing trouble.

[Dominus]

We'd just need to concentrate a bit, fix the input problems Watt created and finally have some GUI and it would look much better.

[Dale]

I commend all your hard work. All of you on all your projects. I am always looking forward to new developments.
I was thinking about playing U8 through DOSbox, but I'd rather wait a year or longer and play it through Pentagram.

[Gunther2]

Don't want to be a necroposter, but is it allowed to ask a question in this thread about other Ultima games? Since I'm having a problem with the Lazarus remake from "Warriors Of Destiny":

http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Gerrin

Also from the walkthrough (although I kinda find it a sloppy "rush-rush" walkthrough...)

"Attack on Bordermarch

The Oppression agent Gerrin leads a team of the Black Company to Bordermarch, claiming to have followed the Avatar. He asks if this place is a Resistance stronghold. There are two choices:

Yes. No Karma penalty for being honest. Everyone in Bordermarch feels doomed and neither Sir Simon nor Lady Tessa will speak with the Avatar anymore. (+15 XP)
No. –1 Karma for lying. Gerrin orders an attack, BUT ATTACKING GERRIN WILL MEAN THE BORDERMARCH RESIDENTS WILL BECOME HOSTILE TO THE PARTY."

This is a bug btw, and this hasn't been fixed after 1.2's release in 2008 (I believe it was 2008, when the 1.2 version was released, due to bugs with the Blink Spell...)

"Killing Gerrin or any Bordermarch residents is –5 karma each. One way to handle this encounter is to set the party on hold fire so they will not accidentally react to Gerrin. Kill all the Oppression soldiers, then let the Bordermarch residents kill Gerrin. Unless the party helps, it is possible that a Bordermarch resident may be killed, although between them and the guards, the Oppression force will generally be cleared."

Another problem lies in the fact that if I ordered them not to attack, they'll probably get killed. The solution could be that I only select myself and go into combat with the guards, but even if I put it on "Engage", The Avatar will still attack Gerrin, because he's being attacked by Gerrin (not attacking someone in "Engage" mode only works when being attacked by an archer or a mage).

I have already finished about 70% from this game, so the only things I can do know (before the bordermarch) are:

1. some sidequests that are left
2. Explore Dungeon Deceit (haven't done that one yet)
3. visit the Shrine Of Humility (haven't done that one either)

Normally, I could ask this on the board of Project Britannia, but they're hardly active and unless it's an U6P Question, most people won't respond (don't know why...)

Perfect examples are two questions of me on that board:

http://www.projectbritannia.com/forum/i ... pic=2405.0

52 views, 0 responses (after reloading the previous savefile, this problem was solved)

http://www.projectbritannia.com/forum/i ... pic=2467.0

7 views, 0 responses. My characters are all at lv.7 now, but I can't find anything about how many exp. is needed to level up your character (except for U6P)

[Dominus]

Necropost is ok if it were on topic
And no, please don't ask for help with other Ultima games or remakes that have nothing to do with Exult (Pentagram is a big exception since it shares the same developers).
Ask on Ultimacodex or in the Ultima/Ultima Dragons Facebook groups.

[Gunther2]

Where do I do that? It just says "Codex Discussion" and "Research", plus most topics are about the wikipages itself. I don't want to get an IP ban just because I'm asking a question.

[Dominus]

Try the contact option maybe kenneth canrelay yozr message somewhere.