Exult Forum

I'm a decent way through Serpent Isle with the most recent SI Fixes mod, and I can't remember if I had played through with this mod before, or just with Exult. If I had, it was years and years ago.

Anyway, I love SI Fixes, and just wanted to mention a few things I noticed while playing through, good and bad. I tried my best to remember which changes were in vanilla Exult and which ones weren't:

Good:

Party formations - I like how the party isn't lockstep like it was in the original game, nor does it have the "loose" formation I've seen elsewhere while playing both Ultima 7 games through Exult. It's a happy medium I like.

Scenes - These are so much better now, not nearly as glitchy. I had all sorts of problems playing through the original SI, especially with the Knight's Banquet. Most of the scenes play perfectly, with one small exception listed below.

Original Bugs - I tried talking to the ghosts and double-clicking the Fire Pillar to see if they still had those glitches. Both are now gone.

Items List - The List of recovered items is also much better. Nearly everything is described correctly, and re-written at the plot-appropriate moment. Again, there's only one or two exceptions listed below.

Animations - I notice people make their beds almost immediately after waking up. It doesn't matter much, but it's a nice touch.

Bad:

Party formations - One small nitpicky problem I noticed is how one of the party members will get "stuck" while walking, looking in the complete wrong direction while doing so. It looks a little odd, but is otherwise fine - they still walk without any problems.

Items List - Almost everything works fine here, except the filari is never listed (I took great care not to spend it), and Luther's shield is never updated, just showing the "inexpensive shield" text, long after I've exchanged shields with him.

Scenes - The only scene that gives me problems is the one in Dungeon Freedom when Lorthondo turns the guy into a bone dragon. This scene never happens, and Lorthondo just stands there. He comes back later when he should, so it doesn't break the game, but it was still odd, since I've never seen this have problems before. Fawn Tower also never gets cleaned up, despite the Readme saying it will.

Smith - Smith's character portrait in the Dream Realm is, for some reason, one of the ghost/dead character portraits you see when having a seance with Mortegro or talking to the King of the White Dragon.

Spells - All the spells that have "Ex Por" incorrectly listed still have it - the mantra hasn't changed. The Fire Snake spell not only doesn't work at all, the Avatar makes no motion or obvious attempt to even cast it, and the only way I can tell it was tried is that the mana & reagents are depleted.

Pocketwatch - I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get Shamino to set it to a 24-hour watch - there appear to be no options for this.

I'm in the Frozen North (close to the Spinebreaker part of the game), so I'll post any additional oddities I notice. But overall I'm very happy with SI Fixes.

Thank you! Marzo and others have put a lot of work into this.

Party Formations - This is an Exult issue, not specific to SI Fixes.

Item List - The strange silver baubles appear on my list.

Scenes - Lorthondo's throne room was okay here. It would be cool if he casted spells though.

Smith - This is an unfixed original bug. We could use some artwork for it.

Spells - This makes me think you don't have the latest copy of SI Fixes. These worked as expected here.

Pocketwatch - It should be a conversation option with Shamino, nothing else to configure.

I have more than a few minor fixes coming, so please report what else you find.

Holy weakness, both the Ice Dragons and Bone Dragons use no-harm telekinesis-like attacks. It makes they way, way too easy.

You may be right on the Lorthondo scene. I'm seeing some odd blocking by the carpet shapes there with a Z level of 4. That shouldn't be the case.

It looks like that odd telekinesis shape was hitting the carpet and raising it, but I can't recreate it.

I tried re-downloading and installing SI Fixes, just to make sure I had the latest version. Still no changes. I was pretty sure I already had the latest version, as I downloaded it after November, when I see the last update was released.

To be specific on the Lothondo scene, the other guy never shows up - his sprite isn't there. Lorthondo is just sitting in his chair looking at an empty room.

Another thing I forgot to mention was finding the Avatar's companions after escaping Freedom. Everyone is where they should be, but Dupre is sitting in mid-air at the Blue Boar Inn (near the stage).

With the Smith portrait, I remember in the original game he simply didn't have a portrait at all, just the dialogue text. Is it possible to re-create that, or would you need a different portrait?

I saved the game at pretty much all these points, so I'd be happy to post screenshots of the bugs if that would help.

Smith the horse is normally not reachable in the Dream Realms though, unless I missed something. So that could have been the reason why they never bothered with making a portrait.
If you play without cheating you don't have access to Unlock Magic in the Dream Realm.

You can still speak to him, when walking around on the walls of Rabindrinath's castle. He's hanging out there, in one of the side areas. He has quite a bit of dialogue, and gives you hints to The Black Gate and Martian Dreams. FYI I never cheat in SI (or any Ultimas for that matter, unless there's a game-breaking bug).

In fact I remember in the original game, he spoke to you automatically if you came within a certain distance. When playing through it just now, I had to double-click on him for the dialogue to start.

I wouldn't mind if he could be changed back to the non-portrait Smith, it's just seeing him with the dead human ghost portrait is kind of weird.

For a brief moment, I thought maybe someone put in a reference to Smith and all the horses being killed in Ultima 9, before quickly remembering Smith's portrait in SI Fixes has a human skeleton.

I remember never being able to double-click him when standing on the wall (greeted by a cross and a beep), but I could be wrong. My memory is not what it used to be. x_x

Ah yes, one more post-Freedom thing I just now remembered involved Mosh.

I tried searching all over Moonshade to find her so I could give her the fish, talk to Columna and get the harp that will put the Rat Men to sleep. I went to all her usual hangouts (near Bucia's, the Artisan's Bazaar, and her home) and couldn't find her anywhere.

Finally I started searching the more unusual areas in town, and found her just sitting in the chair at Flindo's house (the SE house, right near Mortegro's). It was very strange, and I've never seen her there before. Not sure if this ever happens in Exult, but I thought I'd mention it.

Hmm, there is something wrong - I just need to find out what. Because SI Fixes does behave differently for me. For example the Shamino - Pocketwatch thing just works.
Can you make sure that you are actually using the latest version of SI fixes? Sure you downloaded it but have you extracted it to the right place?
In the location of your SI game, what date does the usecode file have in /mods/sifixes/data/ ?

Because Shamino not offering the time dialog option is a sure sign that you are *not* using the correct usecode file.

You got me! Turns out I had two "Sifixes" folders, one inside the other. I followed the Readme instructions a bit too literally, it seems.

Anyway, not only does the Shamino watch work now, the "SI Fixes" comes up on the title screen too.

Thanks for your help! I just have to start the game over now...

Yes, unfortunately you have to start over. Your game is just badly broken now

At least the Smith portrait is a real Exult bug (not only SI fixes). Spells, pocketwatch time, bone dragon and most likely the missing items list are all working correctly with a good version. Dupre might still sit in the air, though.

Well, after playing through it from the beginning for 5 minutes, I can safely say both the pocketwatch and the items list work perfectly now so far.

Not only are the filari now listed, but so is the bear skull, which updates now that I've found Shamino's magic bow.

I'll keep playing through and let you know if any of the glitches I saw before are still there, or if everything is fixed.

I'll have to check Smith's usecode out. His NPC number is the same as the ghost face.

Smith doesn't have his own Usecode, he's embedded in the Nightmare's shape code. You can go to any Nightmare (or spawn one) and set his schedule to TALK. But in doing so, any Nightmare other than Smith will show the Guardian!

UI_show_npc_face0(FACE_GUARDIAN, 0);

If Smith does not show a face in the original game, it would be due to Exult handling faces just a little differently. It uses the same-number face if one is not supplied.

So does this mean we'd have to supply a portrait of Smith, or else be content with him looking like a human ghost?

no, it means that someone needs to fix our code...

Just noticed something slightly wonky when playing through.

When talking to Shazzanna for the second time, she asks "What is thy business with me, Knight?", and I haven't even taken the Knight's Test yet.

Everything else is fine, almost nobody (including her) will talk to me if I ask them their duties. I can't remember if this was in Exult or in the original game, either.

Surely the dialogue can be tweaked just to remove the word "Knight" until passing the Knight's Test?

This is in the original code. Maybe having "stranger" instead would fit?

Also, one of her training barks is different if Spektor has admitted his crimes.

Keep the bug reports coming!

@Dominus, can you check the non-expansion version of SI for the Smith face behavior? It looks like his face is set to the ghost in SI+SS when checking via ES.

Shazzana has variable code for using stranger or Knight but the variable is not called in conversation:

var0002 = "stranger";
if (gflags[AVATAR_IS_KNIGHT])
var0002 = "Knight";

So this is absolutely fixable.

I can do that.. perhaps... need to find my full original. All I have directly are the data files

Also, I do remember way back in original SI, if you killed Selina in Spinebreaker, resurrected her and talked to her (I believe after Batlin's death), there would be an endless conversation loop of her saying "I want to be alone" as she mourns Batlin, causing the game to be stuck.

I know this isn't an Exult or SI Fixes problem, it was in my original copy.

I haven't tried to replicate this bug in 20 years, but I'm wondering if it's been fixed, or can be fixed, going forward. It would be nice to have her just say it once without crashing the game.

Odd, the abort is there after she says that, but apparently it doesn't work.

It might need this: UI_remove_npc_face0();

Found my original floppies. Still no portrait in the original. Might just need a special case.

I wonder if an all-transparent Face shape for him would be an easier fix?

No, because that would only fix it for SI fixes and not the normal game

Don't we have some non-mod code running with the default games?

This is such an edge case I don't believe fixing in the engine makes sense.

Just found something else.

When a character holds a halberd while wearing Alyssand's engagement ring, a thin vertical green line appears on the paperdoll, near their backpack.

This doesn't seem to happen with any other weapon, and it's the same for every character I could find.

Yes, that's an original bug, you can trigger it with any staff like weapon. The ring shape is buggy.
https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/447/

A new one I noticed, at the banquet.

Krayg is standing up facing south towards the doors the entire time. He reacts when Luther accuses him, but still looks south instead of at Luther. The rest of the scene plays normally.

Big chance that the banquet will play out fine next time. I had some weird things in it as well, but not reproducible.
One time Spektor was lying dead on the ground after the banquet. No idea what caused it. Must have been some party!

Another thing I've noticed, even when playing through my "fixed" SI Fixes.

Shopkeepers need to be in a very specific spot in order to transact with them.
I've had situations with Krayg, Bucia, Topo and Pothos where they stand in one place and I can't do business with them.

It either won't come up as a conversation topic, or they'll respond with the stock "My store isn't open" response. If they move a foot or so one way or the other, I can buy and sell from them. I don't remember the original game being like this.

I'll check the Usecode later, but I suspect they have to be in TEND_SHOP activity to do transactions. This appears to have been set instead of time restrictions. While that gave the programmers flexibility to change their hours, it also means if they are Move2Schedule they won't sell.

Pothos has to be in PATROL, and there's multiple checks for it in his code.

Also doing a playthrough of si fixes. Here's what I have so far (early game, done most of monitor and fawn):

bug: talk to marsten -> he says traitors are dead & krayg is still stuck in conspiracy
bug: guards bump into each other and won't move out of their way, sometimes lots of guard appear (ie. under sleeping bull tower)
bug: standarr keeps Pomdirgun option in conversation after killing him (it seems all of fawn does too)
bug: upon accusing Lord Marsten, he simply vanishes if he is on screen at the time
bug: screen becomes white (far too slow lightning effect) reloading a save fixes this. haven't had this lately, but happened a lot early on.
bug: dupre trial done: you have to talk to companions or they won't move (they are joined though and portraits are below)
bug: i had the gold for hawk but had not freed him yet. went to the boat and the cutscene started for boarding the ship

that's how far I got for now. It great playing through again! Many thanks!

Hi Joseph1,

1) Can you give more details?
2) Known issue, added another bug for it: https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/2015/
3) Known issue, to be addressed in my mod. Code is done.
4) Can you reproduce this? His code doesn't include anything to make him disappear, only to end the conversation:

case "accuse" (remove):
say("@What art thou talking about? Thou dost know nothing! Leave at once, or I shall call the Pikemen!@");
delayedBark(MARSTEN, "@Leave!@", 0);
abort;

5) Have not seen this issue. Can you recreate it?
6) Fawn Trial NPCs do not rejoin automatically. May be an original game bug.
7) Will need to investigate further.

4) I accused him at noon when they're all in the town hall. I did it by talking to Brendann (commander of the wolves). Maybe it's in his code?

The others I'll check soonish, it's on another computer. I may have savegames, are you interested in them?

1) this was early game and now I'm having doubts what it was about exactly, but I may have saved just before (these are my bug found notes).
5) I'll see if early saves still have the issue. I did not change any settings afterwards, it just went away on it's own.
7) The boat scene I saved just before it happened.

I also had a corrupt quick save at some point (I quick saved after the blink mint trap, while finishing off Batlin's hired goons), had to create a new character in order to be able to reach the load savegames screen. This solution didn't occur to me immediately and I did worry a bit about the avatar being stuck in savegame limbo

« bug: screen becomes white (far too slow lightning effect) reloading a save fixes this. haven't had this lately, but happened a lot early on. »
- - - - -

It happened in the original too, usually after I got poisoned by Lydia.

It did happen twice in my current playthru and had nothing to do with Lydia, and to be honest it felt like fog more than anything else. I presumed it was a weather add-on from the Exult team.

It's not game breaking and I cannot reproduce it on demand no matter how I try.

Sure, zip and email the saved games.

4) Okay, yes, that's how the arrest seems to work if he's proven to the other clan leaders. Fixing that might be challenging to have him escorted to jail.

I sent you the saves KC.

1) marsten bug - Shmed/Simon is still alive, but Marsten says he is dead. You can go right to the Inn and verify.
7) L1 - go east to the boat and see cutscene with hawk coming. Verify that he is still in prison in bull tower.

Screen becomes white, possible reasons:

Te original had the weather "fog". In BG there were only two places on the open sea that you could trigger it. In SI there are more. BUT the original had a bug that the palette shift didn't work *twice* on the same gaming session. So if fog weather was triggered once it wouldn't trigger again until you ended the U7 and then started it again. This could also be true if a storm lightning changed the palette for a second which is much more common and then the fog weather effect wouldn't be noticeable again.
I recently recorded it in the original (in Dosbox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJVR4YHFviA
You can observe the bug in that one. The weather egg triggers the fog, it goes away, reload of the game, and then back to the weather egg. You can see the raindrop effect is happening but not the palette shift. Opening the inventory makes the shift work though. Go figure...

So Marzo disabled the fog effect ages ago, both because it wasn't easy to reproduce in the original and because he dislikes the effect.
OTOH Knight Captain lobbied for the effect to come back, so I enabled it again in Exult and added the raindrop effect.
Similar to that (but had no raindrop effect yet) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUmXtsWFpes

So, is that the effect you have experienced?

1) Marsten says:
"Lydia must have been part of Shmed's secret conspiracy. But that no longer matters -- both of the Goblin spies are dead!"
That seems appropriate for having confronted and slain both of them. In the save you sent me, you have not picked up the bottle of Fawnish Ale at the monolith, and Simon is still human and alive. After Simon is confronted, transforms, and is slain, Marsten will change his response.

7) Hawk and the Arabella, can you give me more details on this one? What have you done in-game up to this save point?
I can see Hawk is still in jail and the Pikemen are waiting for the gold bars, but it is not clear to me how his NPC ID got up to 2. It looks like the Pikeman code does some math on the ransom money with Hawk's NPC ID number.

Dominus, yes that is the effect. I had no raindrops.

7) related to hawk and sitting bull, in order:
-I talked to everyone at sitting bull (I think I explored all convos as far as I could, but did not puchase the heartstone convert technique from the mage). Besides the inn itself I checked out the building southwest of the inn where the monk often is. I did not talk to Wilfred.
-I checked out hawk, talked to him (no convos) and then asked the guard. I exhausted all convo options before offering monetari, he asked 500
-I went to the mint with Selena, with no companions. I took the loot, then the trap with the goons happened and I died.
-I reloaded just before bull tower
-I talked to the guard again, I think I did all convos again, but then he only asked 200.
-redid the mint, but this time with companions. Survived this time. However my quicksave got corrupted as the last goon fell.
-redid the mint another time, with companions, and succeeded.
-went to bull in and I went to the secret passage near the wine, found the serpent gate but did not teleport (I did, but then I reloaded before teleporting). I don't think I explored that area fully.
-Looked around a bit at the inn, talked to Wilfred.
-this is where the savegame is

I hope I did not forget anything important, this is all from memory.

1) indeed, maybe I thought about the innkeeper that was still to come and didn't realize Shmed was the test knight. I remember thinking this didn't make sense at all. But that explains why the provisionner is also still defensive. Sorry.

sleeping bull not sitting bull...