New Paperdoll Art Mockup

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:24 pm

What began as a project to replace the ridiculously undersized shield paperdoll artwork has quickly branched into a full paperdoll replacement project.

The paperdolls I am working on are currently larger than the original artwork and, I feel, more detailed. These are based on the artwork in Daggerfall, and the later Might and Magic Games.

Here is a mockup of a Male Blonde Avatar with Plate Mail, Gauntlets, Plate Leggings, Armored Boots, and a Sword.

The background was resized 125% from the original.

agentorangeguy · Post by **agentorangeguy** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:58 pm

Nice!

torgus dragon · Post by **torgus dragon** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:21 pm

My avatar doesn't have a pot belly.

Armor looks great. I can't wait to see what you do with the rest of the paperdoll images

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:11 pm

Ok, I have created a large checklist for every single paperdoll image in U7, SI, and both Keyring and SI Fixes.
I have also expanded the paperdolls to include child, gargoyle and possibly emp paperdolls.

However I have a few images that I would like a second opinion upon.

First is the Serpentine Sword, I have three versions completed

Version 1

Version2

and Version 3

Next I have Three Versions of the Plate Leggings

Version 1

Version 2

and Version 3

Finally, I have two male bodies to choose between, I already have selected Version 1 for Gargoyles and Automatons

Version 1

and Version 2

Thanks.

torgus dragon · Post by **torgus dragon** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:25 pm

The 1st sword looks the best imo. If anything if could use some more squiglies. But as I remember the sword is supposed to be curvy like a serpent, for the blad of course.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:01 am

The second sword looks like a straight sword. The third looks like a saw. The first one looks best. Maybe you should decrease the amount of curves and make the curves "bigger", more defined. My wife didn't know that it should look like the Malayan dagger or 'Kris'.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:40 am

You're not the only one to think of using Daggerfal paperdolls, but it's a huge copyright problem since Bethdesa owns those rights.

wizardry dragon

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:58 pm

I wouldn't have thought that copyright would be an issue here since:
1. Bethesda themselves released Daggerfall for free at the elderscrolls.com website.
2. I'm changing the Daggerfall artwork rather substantially beyond what I've shown in the mockup image. I'm really only using them to get the positioning and layout.
3. Once completed the images will either have to be changed to the u7 palette resulting in the image being changed even more, or exult will have to allow higher color depth.(Which would probably have to be done anyway for the Exult HD Project)
4. The Paperdolls would be completely separate from Exult, therefore the Exult team would not be liable anyway.

Anyway I have taken the suggestions given regarding the Serpentine Sword and am redrawing it.

Any thoughts about which body size I should use for the male humans? I thought that I would use V1 for the Winged Gargoyles, and Automatons and/or Goblins, and V2 for the humans, Wingless Gargoyles, and possibly the Automatons and/or Goblins.

I am also drawing artwork for child and emp paperdolls, that way Spark will look appropriate, and Trellek could be turned into a full companion.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:04 pm

Releasing an item for free isn't a release of copyright. Anything made from Bethdesa art is a "derivative work"

It's really your call, but its shaky legal ground at best.

wizardry dragon

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:38 pm

OK, I have sent an email to Bethesda detailing my intentions. If I get a C&D from them then I will stop, but until then I will continue my work.

Post by **Dominus** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:30 pm

Let us know what comes of it!

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:43 pm

I have good news and bad news.

Good news is Bethesda has not yet objected to my endeavors, therefore work will continue.

Bad news is I've had a hard drive crash and now I have to start over.

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:20 pm

Good news is Bethesda has not yet objected to my endeavors, therefore work will continue.

What did they write?

Bad news is I've had a hard drive crash and now I have to start over.

This IS bad.

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:45 am

I'm sorry to hear of your hard drive crash! I lost some early work a while back on the Savage Empire remake. Since there are both a lot of assets and many hours of work accumulated, I now make regular backups. I once accidentally moved an entire canvas, cutting off many objects, and saved it before realizing. I was very happy to recover the lost art from one of the backups!

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:20 pm

Yeah, normally I backup everything at least once a week, however I had not yet done it by the time of the crash.

I haven't heard anything from Bethesda yet. Either they don't care or they never check their email.

Warder · Post by **Warder** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:31 pm

Don't expect them to reply. There's a reason EA never replies to anything like that; for legal reasons, they can't really say yes. Or, well, they can, but it's very shaky ground to walk on. So rather than having to say no, they don't say anything at all.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:53 pm

Not writing back to a random email (random for them, imagine how many emails they must receive) after three days is not the same as them not objecting.
So you are still on very shaky ground if you continue to use AND sharing their copyrighted art.
If they were really to reply you can expect a timeframe of one to six months, after all this is not a decision that the first guy who reads your mail can make. And the person who can make this decision is busy with more important stuff.
After six month of no reply I wouldn't count on any reply anymore. That will still not make your work on their art legal...

Warder · Post by **Warder** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:59 pm

Of course, I didn't mean to imply that they're not objecting - I was talking about EA, not Bethesda, and EA has never replied to any of the Ultima remake projects seeking permission.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:47 pm

Sorry Warder, I was replying to GWC

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:10 am

I personally do not worry about the copyright issues. If/when any of my projects are released in any form, they will not be sold, and basically helps these companies who are otherwise not doing anything with the property, by keeping people informed of the existence of said properties. I can almost guarantee that Lazarus brought new fans to the Ultima series, which certainly helps EA.

In my opinion, basing work on but yet drastically changing it from it's original form into something almost entirely original, does not hurt these companies at all. Please, GWC, continue to work on your project! The work that you have displayed thus far is fantastic! We need more people creating new assets, mods, and eventually games with Exult Studio. I would love to see more interest generated by projects so that more can get done. I know that I am guilty for not showing off what I have accomplished art-wise, but I'm hoping that will change when I can switch jobs ( I am seeing my son literally for less than 10 minutes mon-fri!!!).

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:25 pm

Ok, I have a new picture to show everybody.

It is the Ultima 5/8 Avatar in my new frame. The frame's background is not yet done.

Edit by Dominus: I fixed the code for showing the image. It's just [ img ] url [ /img ] (without the space after and before the bracket

)

Lathlas · Post by **Lathlas** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:49 pm

That last one looks crazy awesome. CRAZY awesome I say!

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:25 pm

I had an idea yesterday and I was curious how possible it would be to implement.

My idea was to have the frame's background be different depending on the time of day, and party location. If your party was outdoors in daylight the picture reflect that, If you were in a dungeon or cave then the picture would reflect that, and so on and so on.

If it is not possible, what do you want the background picture to be?
I thought that something other than a plain color background would be nice for a change. But I'm willing to take suggestions.

Oh, and thanks for the correction and tip Dominus.

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:42 am

Thats a great idea, GWC. I have a similar idea for the Savage Empire Remake portraits, to simulate how they were done in the original game. I believe that Marzo mentioned on another thread, that it would be possible through usecode. I have also tinkered with the idea of having the backgrounds of paperdolls and portraits have a translucent color that would show the background, but obscure it enough to make it easier to drag and drop things via the paperdoll.

Post by **marzo** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:17 pm

You misunderstood me then: gumps and paperdolls cannot be manipulated with usecode (apart for being closed). It is possible to replace the gump/paperdoll graphics, but you can't have a different gump for day/night or for special conditions -- the sole exception being the stats gump in SI, which changes color for freezing.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:21 pm

I have a similar idea for the Savage Empire Remake portraits

I *think* portraits can be manipulated in that way, but portraits are different to gumps - just to clarify where the misunderstanding might come from...

Post by **marzo** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:01 pm

Yes, portraits can indeed be manipulated in usecode and can be manipulated that way.

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:15 pm

OK, well since it cannot be done the way I thought, Does anyone have any suggestions for the background?

Scythifuge · Post by **Scythifuge** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:20 pm

Thank you Dominus and Marzo for the clarifications!

GWC, the only other thing that I can think of is using a translucent color for the background, or maybe leaving it blank. I'm seriously thinking of using a translucent green for my paperdolls.

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:17 pm

Is it possible to add additional palettes to palettes.flx?
I ask because every paperdoll object I've been working on has sixteen colors per image, not counting any palette rotation/transparency.

I thought that if the palette file could be extended beyond palettes 0-15 new content would be far easier to create.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:35 pm

Adding more palettes will do no good. Only one is used at a time. The palettes changes when the lighting changes, the avatar is invisible, etc. all on hard coded palette numbers.

Mongo · Post by **Mongo** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:36 am

With a transparent background, the background will display the time of day (day/night) and the type of location very accurately, and use imagery which is undeniably true to the originals. A bit more literal than you may have been thinking, but should be very easy to do.

Lord Alamar · Post by **Lord Alamar** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:21 pm

Actually my questions about the palettes were not related to the backgrounds, but to the actual paperdoll components itself.

Each item I've made so far is made up of a minimum of sixteen colors. I can reduce the palette, but detail may be lost.

I'll post some before/after pics when I reduce a few.

Post by **marzo** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:37 am

It would be best if you tried reducing the colors in the paperdolls to those in the U7 palette: it would ensure that they wouldn't be even more mangled on import.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:00 am

I'd also like to add that you should use the GIMP plug-in and save the shapes to .shp. Then open the shp file and hit cancel when asked for a palette. You could then try copy and pasting your old design and seeing how well it works out.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:16 am

Information from Marzo about special indexes:

In the game palette, the last 32 colors are 'special'. They behave, by index (0-based), as follows:
224 to 231: Rotation group (8 colors).
232 to 239: Rotation group (8 colors).
240 to 243: Rotation group (4 colors).
244 to 247: Rotation group (4 colors), translucent for some shapes.
248 to 251: Rotation group (4 colors), translucent for some shapes.
252 to 254: Rotation group (3 colors), translucent for some shapes.
255: Completely transparent.

Thus, there are 11 'translucent' palette indices in U7. These are the semi-transparent colors you are looking for. That is, if the shape in question has/can have translucency. Based on shape source, here is the breakdown:
- faces.vga, sprites.vga: Always translucent.
- fonts.vga, gumps.vga: Never translucent.
- paperdol.vga, shapes.vga: Translucent if you check the 'translucent' check box in the shape information window in ES (in the appropriate tab).

Now, for the actual translucency information. Normally, Exult will load the translucency tables from the "xform.tbl" in static dir. There are 11 such tables (one for each translucent color), and these indicate what each palette entry will look like behind that translucent color. If Exult doesn't find the above file, it creates the tables using certain RGBA values for each translucent color; these RGBA values are also used for OpenGL rendering, so they can be trusted. Here they are, again by color index:

- 244: R 144, G 40, B 192, A 128
- 245: R 96, G 40, B 16, A 128
- 246: R 100, G 108, B 116, A 192
- 247: R 68, G 132, B 28, A 128
- 248: R 255, G 208, B 48, A 64
- 249: R 28, G 52, B 255, A 128
- 250: R 8, G 68, B 0, A 128
- 251: R 255, G 8, B 8, A 118
- 252: R 255, G 244, B 248, A 128
- 253: R 56, G 40, B 32, A 128
- 254: R 228, G 224, B 214, A 82

Post by **marzo** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:52 pm

As I found out (and implemented) a few months ago, there are actually 17 xforms in the data of the original games. And you can override the RGBA values of the substitute blends with a file called 'blends.dat' in patch dir.