Exult Forum

Hi guys,

Just saw this posted on digg and was wondering how (if at all) this sheds light on the current issue of Ultima VII binaries and the Exult project:

2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.

Source : http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

Basically, the U.S. Copyright Office is clarifying anti-circumvention issues present in the DMCA. I doubt this extends to distribution rights of Ultima VII, then again I'm not a lawyer. Nevertheless, this does lend some of the so-called abadonware community some credence.

Any thoughts on this matter? Can we get a lawyer or legal eagle to put in their view?

-- bb

I'm not a lawyer, although I've watched TV shows with actors playing lawyers:-) It does sound to me like this would protect programs like Exult and Dosbox, since there are no longer machines sold which can play Ultima7 in its original format. But I don't think this gives people the freedom to distribute copies of the original game.

That clarification by the USCO has a terrible ambiguity in it: namely, does the prepositional phrase "by a library or archive" apply to just "archival reproduction", or to "preservation" as well? If the latter, then no, this clarification probably does not protect Exult, since Exult is not authored by or primarily for the benefit of librarians. However, in that case Exult could always adopt a LAME-like disclaimer, saying that the only recognized purpose of the software is to help librarians preserve Ultima VII.

In any case, I'm not sure that the DMCA would even apply to Exult, since possessing original hardware was never explicitly made a condition of access. (In fact, Ultima VII didn't come with any hardware, making this a moot point.) Also, copying the original media to a hard drive was explicitly permitted by the license.

This may open the door for importing the extra graphics from that Japanese NES game that has extra graphics contemporary to Serpent Isle (I forget the name). Its machine is no longer manufactured, and programming is out of date. So, the rom could be legally accessed by alternate means. Exult could make the stipulation that you must own the game for the rom to be on your system (but it would now be legal for the rom to be on your hard drive). As long as Exult didn't copy the extra graphics files from the Japanese game, but utilized them from the acutal game directory, then it could be considered legal since the game itself wouldn't be altered. This is much the way Exult already does things with the Black Gate, and Serpent Isle.

I think a few more fresh graphics would be neat. Just my thoughts.

I don't want to be a partypooper here, but the SNES version of Ultima VII has recently been rereleased as part of the EA Replay collection for PSP.

Ultima VII is an oddity, because it didnt come with a Licesnse agreement explicitly stating it was forbidden to reverse engineer the title, which is the only real dubious part of what we've done. There is also strange interoperability clauses in copyright legislation, but I wouldn't know where to begin looking into the actual legality of Exult. Also could end up with problems that it's legal in country A and not legal in country B and so on. As far as we're concerned, if EA had a problem with us, we and SourceForce would be sent a C&D letter. It's not like they havent done it before for other groups doing similar things. So far we've been left alone for more than a few years.

Additionally, the DMCA does not apply to Exult in that way because Exult does not circumvent the copy protection used in the original games. While the copy protection can be circumvented using the tools provided in the Exult studio package, we don't do it and we dont say how it can be done.

As far as abandonwear goes... in an ideal world it would be fine. The DMCA may not apply to all instances of abandonwear, but that doesn't mean standard copyright laws don't apply.

-Colourless Dragon

Isn't it more or less possible to circumvent the copy protections using the cheat modes existing in the original games?

less so because you loose certain features if you cheat past the copy protection and parts of the quest can't be completed.

But there was a Japanese game for the Famicom (Super Nintendo) that worked off of the same engine as Ultima 7. It wasn't the Black Gate. Those graphics would work very well with Exult. I wish I could remember the title. It was talked about here in the past. I can't remember what the topic title was either. I think the thread was frozen, but with this new "quasi" freedom, maybe it deserves a second look.

It was Savage Empire.

No, that was Ultima 6.... I distinctly remember a Japanese (or was it Korean) game that was based off of the Ultima 7 engine. A younger guy was getting a little overzealous about utilizing the graphics from it. At the time it was taboo to talk about, because of copyrights. It may not be so at the moment.

Yes. The game was Liar: Legend of the Sword II

http://www.aeonsoft.co.kr/product/sin2.html

With better pictures here.

http://game.asadal.com/old/show.htm?cod ... &field=num

The information was provided in this thread:

http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22630#p22630

The perspective is a little different, but I’m sure things could be tweaked. So, we MIGHT be able to add the extra Super NES graphics of the Black Gate, and Liar. To remain legal, the individual files would have to remain in their original directories, but the files could be called up (like Exult does).
I guess any added effects would have to be done in memory like Exult does with anti-aliasing of original Ultima 7 files.

Oh, I totally forgot about that one.
I assumed you were talking about this:
http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31080#p31080
http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=32756#p32756
(I also forgot that someone did start a mod with those graphics.)

to quote Colourless from above:

that doesn't mean standard copyright laws don't apply.

so basically you are back to where you were before.

or to quote MiniMax from the Dosbox forum where the same topic was raised:

You should learn to read before you post. They are talking about "formats", "original media" and "hardware" and how librians "for the purpose of preservation or archival reproduction" are allowed to copy the media regardless of what copy protection measure that is built into the media.

That means that if you have a paper-tape with an Univac Algol compiler, then it is okay to copy the code from the paper-tape to a modern media like a CD-ROM.

Or if you have the Fortran version of Conquest for an PDP-11 on an old 8" floppy disc, then you may copy that too.

Or if you have Leisure Suit Larry 1 for an IBM XT on a 5½" floppy disc then you may copy that too - if you are an librarian and wants to preserve or archive the game. It doesn't say anything about giving you the rights to suddenly play a copy that you download from a shady site somewhere.

I had stated that Exult could stipulate that if you owned (bought) the copy of whatever software you are using, it would be okay (like with Ultima 7). Also, I keep a library of music for archival purposes (games, and photos also). So, anyone can be a librarian. To store them on another media would be legal. For Exult to make use of the owned files is no different than what it already does with Ultima 7 files. Splitting hairs....

phew, read into that thing what you want and do what you want with the Exult source code. But I *think* it will be a long time before the Exult team will go the way you want it to go.

Ha! That's the way with legal mumbo-jumbo. Anyway, I wasn't expecting the Exult team to do it. They need to stay out of the "gray" area, so Exult continues to impress people allowing others to replay such great games. Still though, legally other people could try it.