Is Exult sleeping?

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:15 am

What's up here?
No News since 2 weeks, only a very few people posting in the forum...

what has happened?

Have I missed any important infos ?

Post by **artaxerxes** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:19 am

3 of the main developers died in a crash accident just 2 weeks ago. That's why there is not much happening here.

Artaxerxes

Post by **artaxerxes** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:19 am

oh by the way.... just kidding.

Artaxerxes

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:44 am

damn humor, you got... really

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:44 am

and whats the real reason?

4 main developers died?

Post by **artaxerxes** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:51 am

the news:

the beta of exult is really going gamma soon, if you know what I mean.
Zaurus port now supports zipped savegames.
More bug fixes.

Artaxerxes

suraimu · Post by **suraimu** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:04 pm

i want a theta release^%!@$#%^

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:06 pm

i want my music and sound working correctly in exult...

gruck · Post by **gruck** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:21 pm

phi! phi! phi!

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:23 pm

Honestly atm it seems that real life is taking a big hit on the development of Exult.
Also we still haven't fixed all of the bugs that seem to resurface recently and for the 1.0 release we want to make sure that those are fixed.

Trevor: what is the problem you have with sound? Either you haven't asked yet for help or I must have missed your post.
Make sure you read our documentation and the FAQ, you have the latest driver for your soundcard...
Also when you report the problem include what OS and soundcard you are using.

Post by **drcode** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:53 pm

There have been bug fixes, but most of us have been taking a break from new development. Such is the nature of open-source projects.

My guess is that we'll start doing more interesting things after the 1.00 release. Right now, there's this feeling of being in limbo.

Post by **nadir** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:37 am

Exult is a community-driven effort. It was born out of passion for two of the greatest computer games of all time. Recreating the Ultima7 engine has been a very hard but rewarding task. I remember downloading Jeff's first few incarnations of Exult when it was only a map browser. I got very excited by the progress he was making and started contributing to the project. Several other developers joined in the fun and I was always looking forward to synchronize my CVS tree and recompiling Exult to see what was new, and committing my own changes waiting for comments. This type of excitement still comes around every now and again (e.g. Artaxerxes' Zaurus port), but most of the effort now is spent on bug fixing and dealing with users' problems (which most of the time are caused by people not reading Dominus' excellent documentation). As you can see there is very little fun in that from a developer's point of view. It's a bit like the party formation "problem": people will whine, complain, protest, but it's a boring project and until someone sits down and works out a way of implementing it...

There are two things that could cause a spark of excitement:
- development of a new game based on the Exult engine, which would also push the development of new features for ExultStudio
- contribution to the also-stalled Pentagram

I was sort of expecting the Exult community to provide the excitement, and also to step forward with helping other users, but it seems I am mistaken, and we're stuck forever with users with sound problems.

Tristan

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:27 am

ok, i posted my sound problem in my thread RECOMMENDED DOWNLOADS...

Post by **drcode** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:03 am

Well said, especially the part about creating new games. That's been my goal for at least a year now, but it stalled when I realized how daunting a task it was to create the graphics. And sometimes it's just nice to take a bit of a break, especially during the one season of the year (here in the NW US) when it isn't constantly raining.

Morg · Post by **Morg** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:09 am

Hey that isn't very fair we love the rain, liquid sunshine

Post by **drcode** » Thu Sep 26, 2002 2:17 pm

Of course. And it gives me a good excuse to stay inside and work on Exult!

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 2:01 pm

A more user friendly GUI for Exult Studio would definately spark things. I could think up some ideas if you want DrCode.

Post by **drcode** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 10:29 pm

Sure! Suggestions are always welcome (if not always responded to:-))

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 3:05 pm

I'd like to apologize in advance for sounding uninformed about Studio, I've barely cracked into the documentation. Anything I suggest that's already included in the program or just plain stupid, feel free to flame me to your hearts content.

Well, drag and drop is always a plus, but prolly hard to program (I took basic and C++ and the best I can do is PRINT "Hi, I'm Chubz")

Items could be split into different categories like edibles, wearables, containers, foliage, monsters, etc. When selected on the map after placement, a dialogue box could open that includes all current relevant values such as (X,Y,Z) coordinates, weight, size (no human corpse fits on a belt pouch, I don't care who you are), effects of course, etc

There could also be an open area where all source code associated with the object could be entered. Perhaps all the variables on the left side of the dialog window, and the source window on the right. Also, for simplification for newbs (like myself, for instance), there could be buttons to jump to the area of source code for each method of manipulation. Maybe one for Use, Move, Wear (includes things like effects on stats and so on).

A click through interface for writing the dialogue would make things easier in creating a dialogue tree.

Another way to reduce clutter would be to use tabs at the top. One tab could also be to display a paper doll of the NPC in question where items can be placed on the NPC like armor, items, etc. I think this feature could more or less be plucked straight from the current Exult engine.

Any and all mobs "schedules" should be able to be programmed by use of markers on the map. Mobs could be told to go to the desired point, or to the general vicinity. Mobs schedules could be programmed to go to the next location after a set amount of time (perhaps slightly randomized), or could be set up using specific times of day for jobs, meals, sleep etc. There could also be a "mill around" option whereas people would, well, mill around.

I got a bunch more ideas in this fat head of mine, so gimme a little direction DrCode, and feel free to email me if that works better for you.

Post by **drcode** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 3:18 pm

You have some good ideas. Some are already there in one way or another:

- Drag-and-drop
- Categories of objects (groups), although someone has to create the groups.
- Dialogs for setting object properties. But note that these properties apply to the shape, so that all objects with that shape have the same properties.

What I really like, and which we haven't addressed at all, are your ideas to help with script creation.

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 3:28 pm

Hmm. So is it possible to create copies of a shape? Perhaps in this house I want the healing potion to give you 10 hits back, but in this other house, I want it to give 100. Perhaps one is title hlpot10 and the other hlpot100.

hehe, pot

Anyways, for NPC scripting, you could have the ability to create multiple courses of dialogue depending on the status of variables or switches. Also, items worn by the character could determine the course of dialogue. Perhaps each NPC has a standard set of lines, such as lines said while milling around (could be time of day dependent, or better yet location dependent). People just shooting the breeze could be programmed to say stuff like "Nice weather, ain't it?", etc. While at work they'd say, "Jeez this oven is hot." or whatever. Other default sayings like what they say when attacked or killed could be used. Or when a NPC is "used", what they say when approaching the player for conversation. Or perhaps they blow the player off, depending on variables, or switches (like you killed the farmers prize sow, so when you use him he says "Bugger off, Avatar"). A simple dialogue tree config box could include spaces for the number of options available for conversation, what they are, whether they are currently available and whatnot.

Halldin · Post by **Halldin** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:18 pm

I know exactly what you can do after 1.00 comes out ...

MULTIPLAYER EXULT !!! =) (lan, that is)

Post by **wjp** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:44 pm

Healing potions: in this specific case, yes, you can; but that's only because healing potions are handled by usecode. So you could for example use the 'quality' field of a healing potion to specify a number of hitpoints, and then have the usecode function for that potion look at the quality field.

Generally however, if you want two similar looking items, let's say weapons, one with 1(?) damage, and the other with 10(?), you'll duplicate the shape.

Post by **nadir** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 11:11 pm

What if we create another forum or a mailing list where we can discuss the creation of new games ?
Currently Exult is a gathering point for fans of the Ultima series, but I guess there are lots of people who have not played Ultima VII who may be interested in writing a game.

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 4:49 am

OMG, Multiplayer would be the coolest thing ever.

EVER!

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:03 am

Screw the LAN, a server and client ap for internet gaming would be...

Excuse me, I think I have something in my eye!

Post by **nadir** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:17 am

It must be Dominus' left fist... as he has the FAQ in the other hand...

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 6:49 am

ehm Multiplayer in Exult? you fool

Multiplayer in Ultima 7 would be useless ^^

Besides some fun-part, the one player plays the Avatar, the otherone plays Spark...

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 7:25 am

Just imagine walking along with the party, yourself as Spark....
...
Suddenly you get the feeling of being watched.
You turn around and you see the Avatar, Iolo, Dupre, Shamino and all the others staring at your back.
Avatar: "I swear I saw it sparkle for a moment!"
Iolo:"Sparkle, my ass! That is not possible anymore!"
Dupre:"Sure it is, on this server it was hacked back into it!"
Iolo:"Now that you mention it... Can you pass me those sunglasses?"
You (Spark):"Damn, I've had enough of this! Go finish your stupid quests yourself. I'm going to hunt for cyclops..."

... you wander through the forest...
Suddenly you hear loud laughter
"he he he he, .. and then he turned and I saw what the other cyclops fled from: his shiny pants..."

You log off the server and you swear you will never ever again bother with Exult Online ...

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:50 am

Haha, interesting story Dominus, though I'm not sure I'd pick Spark.

Yeah, definately would NEVER choose Spark, he's a pantywaste.

I think it would rule to play the games with a party comprised of your friends? Sleeping would be a bit strange though, I guess.

I think I'd pick Iolo as my char, but only cause 3 out of the 4 letters in his name are vowels.

Trevor_Clim · Post by **Trevor_Clim** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:59 am

i pick Tseramed and shot you all with my sleeping arrows! and i ask you dumb questions all night long, before i join and i tell you what's up with the fox and slime...

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:00 am

see! a multiplayer Exult may really drive some people insane

Morg · Post by **Morg** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:09 am

And is insanity such a bad thing . . .

Morg · Post by **Morg** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:12 am

Speaking of insanity, sure the plot to ultima 7 wouldn't make a very interesting game but the plot to an exult studio game.

i think we're in real trouble now

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 12:02 pm

Morg: I have to admit that is a very good idea for a game that would ask for multiplayer support.
Imagine a game which forces you to work together but sometimes "miles (in the game)" apart.
A game that forces you to have a party of PCs (player characters)...
And here we are at what UO should have been.

Morg · Post by **Morg** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 12:40 pm

Just some thoughts on a multiplayer exult game.

1. Its can be very difficult to get people in the same place at the same time . . . thats why i haven't done any real roleplaying in over 3 weeks

but since the place is home that isn't too bad

2. For a multiplayer game you need the different pc's to be different. This would mean dialog based on character.

3. I would also suggest some kind of class system, basically attribute limits, max spell lvls, and maybe equipment restrictions. for example dupre the fighter can go upto 30 str, 25 dex, 15 int, can only cast lvl 1 spells, can use any weapon.

4. Some fools would have to be conned into developing a plot complex enough to require multiple players.

5. Probly need to give each player there own side quests

6. It would be an insane project of course i am talking with the same people who made exult in the first place

Morg · Post by **Morg** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 2:36 pm

While im musing over certain insanities i noticed that since you can reload the map using exult studio if you could create an egg that caused the map to load you could support multiple maps

Post by **Colourless** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:35 pm

Call me pesimistic (or realistic as I prefer), but such grand ideas are the sort of things I really wouldn't attempt unless I was actually being paid for it. Creating a whole new game of such a grand scale would take so much time that chances are it wont be finished. And when it doesn't get finished it will really seem like a big waste of time.

People really need an insentive to continuely work on something. Getting something finished isn't insentive enough. Hense this thread. We just aren't working on Exult. Truth be told it's just not 'interesting' enough for me any more. That is why I haven't exactly been active lately.

-Colourless Dragon

Morg · Post by **Morg** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 7:18 pm

Ohh of course there is no doubt in my mind that none of this would happen its just random dreams of grandure

suraimu · Post by **suraimu** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:11 pm

while you're at it, why not make windows notepad multiplayer!?!? DUDE THAT WOULD BE SO COOL@^%%$

Chubz · Post by **Chubz** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:21 pm

Thanks for contributing suraimu.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:23 pm

Heh heh... you could run notepad.exe under NetMeeting desktop sharing and it is like multiplayer.

Post by **drcode** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 9:41 pm

I'm in agreement with Colourless, especially since I need to find some >paid< work. Doesn't mean I'm giving up, and I still think ExultStudio could become a lot more useful. (In fact, I'm wondering if it could be a teaching tool for beginning programming.)

Zósite Kónstyte Styles · Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:02 am

What can I say? You, the Exult Team, began all this about two years ago and now, near the end, it isn´t interesting anymore, is it? Well, as it´s posted on the Homepage you´re successful: you have made a game engine which can plays Ultima7 on modern computers from start to end... without bugs ( at least big ones I think ). You´re about to release the 1.00, but I´m not sure if you will work further then. It´s so sorrowful... I believed that you really wanted to do many more things; it is not pessimism but reading your posts about insentives... What the hell do you want? Money? To try porting Exult to GameBoy-Colour? Isn´t it enough the insentive of finishing the work you began? Now I only regret not beeing wise enough to help you with your work in order to finish it. At least if you don´t want to keep on with Exult post it somewhere and close the project page so everybody can know it instead of insinuating it on the phorum after suddenly stop working. Thanks anyway for your development efforts on the project and sorry for my annoying english.

-Zósite Kónstyte Styles-

-No animals hurt, killed or quarted on the development of this message- [:-P)

Post by **Colourless** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:01 am

Actually Exult isn't only 2 years old, Exult is actually more than 4 years old now.

Hey, Jeff, why don't we start a 'start-up' together.

-Colourless Dragon

Jesse Broecker · Post by **Jesse Broecker** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:39 am

For Years I have dreamed of making a game and have tried on nearly a dozen or maybe more engines and all lay in festering states of unfinishedness. Ultima7 was and still is my all time favorite game and I can't wait to put these two things together! But alas I am no programmer and writing usecode would be a nightmare and without conversation ther is no plot and with no plot is no game. I would love to see the work on the 1.1 branch and the Studio continue, but it is hard to work on a project that doesn't excite the creator. I have heard a lote of whining about the new party formation just let me say I LIKE IT! No longer does it look like a bunch of automatons are following the avatar around. And it is really neat the way party members will open and close doors for you. Well anyway I threw my two cents in gotta go must... stop... guardian.....

Zósite Kónstyte Styles · Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:43 am

Sorry, I didn´t know, but does it change anything? It adds more merit to your work and so more reasons to finish it in a good way. Don´t misunderstand me please: I love Exult ( as I loved U7 before ) and that´s why I want to see it finished, not because of your need for insentives but for the perfection of its final version.

Zósite Kónstyte Styles · Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:51 am

Oh! By the way: I LIKE the party formation too... [:-))

Post by **wjp** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:05 am

I'm not exactly sure how to reply to this, but here goes:

> What the hell do you want? Money? To try porting Exult to
> GameBoy-Colour? Isn´t it enough the incentive of finishing the
> work you began?

I can't speak for all of us, but for me the main reason is simply that it's fun. On top of that, it's also very educational, and the rest of the team is great to work with. However, many of the remaining bugs have become very tedious to fix, which can hardly be called fun.

> Isn´t it enough the incentive of finishing the work you began?

When exactly would you call Exult 'finished'? An open-ended project like this is never truly finished. There's always one more bug to fix, one more feature to add. There was quite an incentive of getting both U7's (almost) fully playable, but that goal is (arguably) very close now.

> At least if you don´t want to keep on with Exult post it somewhere and
> close the project page so everybody can know it instead of insinuating it
> on the phorum after suddenly stop working

I doubt any of us really want to stop working on Exult. Development is just going a bit slow, currently. This has happened a couple of times before, btw, and each time things speeded up after a while again.

Post by **drcode** » Fri Oct 04, 2002 8:51 am

Nobody said we were quitting! It's just a slow time right now because:

1. We're mainly fixing bugs for 1.00, and there haven't been a lot of new bugs.
2. It's been summer (for many of us), and there's always a slowdown then.

Jesse: I appreciate the comment on the party formation. And I am thinking about the suggestions to make usecode-creation easier. This may be the next big piece of code I work on.

Zosite: What do we want? I can't speak for the others, but this would be my (unlikely) first wish: That Origin/EA acknowledges our work and gives us a contract to make it into a product that they'll sell.

My second wish would be to make an original game with ExultStudio. And my current bit of frustration is that, in spite of a LOT of coding on ES, it's still a pain to create something entirely new with it.

Colourless: That (a startup) is a thought. But it won't be particularly well-funded:-)