New mod notice: The Avatar Pack

[marzo]

Sorry, I was writing my post while you posted the image. It looks good indeed; when it is done, send it and I'll gladly use it instead of the default buckethead I've mave (or maybe in addition to, if you don't feel like making a female version).

[Skutarth]

I've been working on it for quite a bit, and doing a female version as well would take a long time. I'll probably eventually do it, but for now this will be it.

[marzo]

Understood. Just one final thing: make sure that you don't use the last 32 colors of the U7 palette or the sprite will suffer for it (they are used for palette cycles). I say this because I noticed that you used some of these colors in the ankh in the pic you posted.

[Skutarth]

Check your mail.
Also, the cycling shouldn't be a problem, I think. I used other sprites as reference, and used the colors directly from things that didn't cycle colors.
I didn't do any palette conversion, either, so I don't think it could happen accidentally.
But if there is a problem, feel free to fix it. The ankhs are uniform throughout the frontal sprites, so it should be easy to change.

[Skutarth]

I just tried importing the sprites into the game replacing the old buckethead. The ankh isn't cycling colors, so everything should be fine.

[marzo]

Got it. I will do the portraits and check a few things (such as seeing if the sprite will need custom weapon in-hand offsets) and then release a new version (this may take a while, though, as I am performing some much-needed maintenance in my computer).

[Skutarth]

There's one other problem I haven't figured out how to fix.
The weapon doesn't stay in the hand for the backward facing sprites.
Can that be fixed with a setting, or should I change the sprites?
It's primarily based on the paladin, and he holds weapons correctly, so I'm hoping for the former.

[Skutarth]

You answered my question while I typed it!
It should use identical offsets to the paladin sprites.
Thanks again, and I'll work on the female version sooner or later.

[marzo]

The weapon doesn't stay in the hand for the backward facing sprites.

This was more-or-less the reason why I said this:

[...](such as seeing if the sprite will need custom weapon in-hand offsets)[...]

(although I haven't tested it yet, I had a feeling that it might be an issue) By default (that is, unless you override it with a setting), Exult will copy the weapon in-hand offsets (and loads of other data) from the default avatar sprites (which is partially why the Avatar Pack contains only recolors of the default avatars -- I added this setting after releasing the pack). Changing the setting means that information from the shape must be specified 'by hand' in ES. Worry not, as I will do it when I come around to actually adding the sprite.

[edit]: Hmm. Maybe I will change that option so that you can also specify that you want to copy the data from another shape instead.

[Skutarth]

Cool.
Also, if you didn't see already in your email, I "tightened up the graphics a little bit". I didn't like how some of the frames looked in-game.
Thanks for putting the time into this project, and I'm looking forward to a new release!

[artaxerxes]

Skutarth, you've done a fantastic job on this avatar shape! Well done!

Have you also completed the other frames (walking, fighting, kneeling, ...) ?

Artaxerxes

[Skutarth]

All done and sent to MarzoJr.

[marzo]

Skutarth: I took a good look at the sprites and there are only a few minor adjustments I will be doing. Mostly, the backpack is on odd positions in a few frames (such as going 1 pixel to the right instead of to the left in one frame, and not moving in some frames it should) and it could use a darker tone of brown in its internal outlines instead of the black lines it uses. All told, it is a very good work. Good job!

[Skutarth]

Yeah, I should have taken more time to deal with the backpack moving around. I spent much more effort on the ankh on his chest.
Feel free to modify all you want, but don't change too much of the internal lines to dark brown. Simply just black lines are used on most of the stock sprites, and changing too much would make it not fit in.

[Skutarth]

One more thing to add: Don't make the paperdoll fully armored. That's just silly.

[TdI]

is this the beginning of an Ultima 8 remake in Ultima 7?

Its sad that making a remake of a game in a previous version of the same series actually seems like a good idea in case of Ultima. That would probably be a primer.

Okay, not going to turn this into an U8 bashing/defending/whining session again... move right along please...

[marzo]

Simply just black lines are used on most of the stock sprites, and changing too much would make it not fit in.

Hmm... no. Check them again. While the sprites are all outlined in black (and many are not exactly in black, but RGB 8,8,8), and in some cases some articles of clothing may have black outlines (e.g., belts and helms for guards), none of the sprites have internal detail in black (except the troll and the cyclops). Take Alagner as an example (shape 227): the hood and robe have some folds which are in darker shades of the base hue; these folds would deserve black much more than the backpack in the sprite as they would receive far less light.

[Skutarth]

Good point. Make changes at your discretion.

[artaxerxes]

would you guys be kind enough to post a shot where all frames are showing so we can appreciate what you are talking about?

I know I've done an NPC a while back (search the forum if you please) but when it came to the animated frames, I did know where to start. What steps did you take Skutarth to create all frames?

Artaxerxes

[Skutarth]

Looking at other shapes. You get a good idea what the parts are and how they animate from looking at existing character shapes. The only exception is the magic casting frames, though. I think that the avatar is the only one who has those.
Other than that, it's just a load of time to work on it. It's not a fast or easy process. It took me accumulatively more than 8 hours to "complete" (quoted because Marzo is touching it up).
I'll have to look up your work today.

Eventually, I'll have to try my hand at creating new monsters.
I'm actually thinking about having an Ultima Online-sort of seeing all of your equipment on the player shape. If Marzo would do the coding, I'd do all of the art.

[artaxerxes]

Skutarth wrote:
>
> I'll have to look up your work today.

here it is:
http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=23499#p23499

Artaxerxes

[marzo]

The only exception is the magic casting frames, though.

Sages, mages and liches also have them. And while not technically magic casting frames, Chuckles, the male shopkeeper and shape #394 guard also have frames 14-15, 30-31. The list is bigger in SI.

I'm actually thinking about having an Ultima Online-sort of seeing all of your equipment on the player shape.

This actually came up once in #tfl. The bottom line was that maybe, someday, after I have completely cleared my (ever-growing) to-do list, I will consider implementing such functionality in Exult. Instead of full equipment-display, showing of shields as well as weapons would be a lot easier easier, but still not on my to-do list.

That said, it *is* possible to have such equipment display in Exult as is; it is just not practical: you would need lots of equipping/unequipping usecode to set shapes/skins, plus dozens (dozens? nay, hundreds is more likely) of new shapes (full blown sprites, for each possible party member, each with a slightly different equipment set) and the definition of custom unselectable skins for the avatar to use these his/her new sprites (as the other NPCs can simply have their shapes set). Like I said, possible but not practical...

[Skutarth]

Not necessarily. You could have parts of the shape instead of a shape for every possible combination. Just like the weapon is attached to the shape, except have all of the parts constructed together into a character. Just the way Ultima Online does it.
And I'd be willing to create all of the art to do so.

[SB-X]

He was saying that he planned to do exactly that. The idea of using dozens of variations of shapes with different clothes would be something you can theoretically do *now* in Exult, without any changes to the engine.

I thought it was a nice coincidence that you brought up visible paperdolls just now, since I'd seen Marzo mention them before.

[marzo]

Well, SB-X beat me to the punch because I wasn't logged in. So I am just going to waste a post confirm that he is right

[Skutarth]

Ask me when you need me to start doing the art. Hah.

[Skutarth]

Any news on the next Avatar Pack?
I'm extremely impatient. Heh.

[marzo]

I am sorry for the delay, but the HD on my laptop had begun to die (I discovered this during the maintenance I mentioned above); I decided to get a new HD and reinstall the system before it did. I am still reconfiguring everything; and when I am done, I will still have to edit the backpacks. So, the earliest ETA I can give is next weekend.

[Skutarth]

Well, at least you're taking the responsibility to replace it instead of waiting for it to fail.

[Vasculio294]

Rose McGowan... why? Shes becoming too main stream... it kills the originality.

Surely theres another unknown chic out there best suited for the red head?

[marzo]

Rose McGowan... why? Shes becoming too main stream... it kills the originality.

Mostly, because she was in my original redhead patch (I consider the Avatar Pack an 'evolution' of that patch).

[Skutarth]

Some of the portraits need a little more blandification. If you look at the stock portraits, most of them look like their faces aren't dithered at all and have hair created by hand.
The ones most true to the original so far are the redheaded female and (as sad as it is) the buckethead. They all look fine, but some of them are getting a little far from fitting in.

[marzo]

If you look at the stock portraits, most of them look like their faces aren't dithered at all[...]

I assume you mean the BG portraits? I ask because even a cursory glance at SI portraits shows that this isn't true (open ES and look at them and you will see it). And as for fitting in... while it is true that the Avatar Pack has a more photo-realistic look, the portraits in SI varied a lot in this regard. Case in point: portraits 75, 276 and 287.

[Skutarth]

I don't see Batlin as a good example, and Lord British looks more realistic because it's supposed to blatantly be Richard Garriott.
And 75 looks realistic, but it has enough drawn-in art that it fits in.
As I said, though: it looks fine. I'm just nagging.

And I got it mixed up... they're dithered as hell. Whoops.

[SB-X]

Well you can't compare them to BG portraits anyway, since those are just drawings and not sourced from real photographs.

[marzo]

I don't see Batlin as a good example, and Lord British looks more realistic because it's supposed to blatantly be Richard Garriott.
And 75 looks realistic, but it has enough drawn-in art that it fits in.

My point was that the portrait styles varied a lot in the original SI, from very realistic to, well, Batlin :-p.

[Gruck]

I'd love to see equipped shields like on the back of the Serpent Isle box

[SB-X]

Yep it would be nice to see that even without complete shape paper dolls.

[lostone]

Just tried out the new mods with the latest version of exult, but have run into a snag. I can't open the spellbook in SI without crashing. Take out the avatar pack and it's fine. Put it back in and and it crashed. Everything else seems to work fine.


StdOut:

Exult version 1.4.03cvs
Built at: Apr 16 2007 15:56:05
Compile-time options: USE_FMOPL_MIDI, USE_EXULTSTUDIO, HAVE_ZIP_SUPPORT
Compiler: gcc, version: 3.4.5 (mingw special)

Platform: Windows XP Service Pack 2 Version 5.1 Build 2600
Exult path settings:
Data : data
Digital music : data\music

Black Gate : found
exult_bg.flx : found
Serpent Isle : found
exult_si.flx : found
OGG Vorbis Digital Music: Enabled
Trying: `Windows'
2 Midi Devices Detected
Listing midi devices:
-1: Microsoft MIDI Mapper
0: Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth
1: MPU-401
Using device -1: Microsoft MIDI Mapper
Success!
Midi Output: Enabled
Starting a SERPENT ISLE game
Game path settings:
Static : D:\Games\SERPENT\static
Gamedat : D:\Games\SERPENT\mods\sifixes\gamedat
Savegame: D:\Games\SERPENT\mods\sifixes
Patch : D:\Games\SERPENT\mods\sifixes\data

Gamedat identity SILVER SEED
Reading usecode file.
Loading /exult_si.flx...
Loading default keybindings
Opened socket for Exult Server on port 1942
Cheats enabled.


StdErr

Line #7 has the wrong section name: characters != version
Line #5 has the wrong section name: bodyshapes != version

[Skutarth]

Haha. I never noticed that in the screenshot on the back of the Serpent Isle box.

[mjohnston]

my box for "the complete ultima VII" also has a scene on the back that I don't remember from the game... there's a bunch of people on the back of the giant sea turtle attacking some building that looks nothing like erstam's (or whatever the mad mage's name is) island villa... it has the shape "catwalk" in the image, which I found in shapes VGA and didn't remember from the game either until I saw it on the back of the box

[Skutarth]

It looks like they completely made up the scene for the box. I'm thinking the shield the girl is holding is actually just the wall-mounted version of the Monitor shield shape placed so it looks like she's holding it.

[Andy]

This also could have been a visualization from the cut plot. It's been a long time since I've looked at that picture, but I believe that there were a couple of Dark Monks not used in the game in it. I don't think they could get the engine to do what they wanted at the time with the power of the 486 CPU. These pictures were compiled to "sell" the game in much the same way the Lost Vale pictures for U8 were.

[marzo]

The sad fact is that picture in the back cover fails a very important test, marking it as a "forgery": the female fighter (the one holding the shield) is using the weapon in the wrong hand. Yep, they didn't get even that right

This means that, even if displaying shields were implemented in Exult, they would not look anything like this picture -- they would be hidden behind the body of the sprite.

Unless Exult were also changed to allow you to wield a weapon in your "off"-hand (basically, also making it possible to "dual-wield" weapons), so you could appear like the female fighter in the picture... but the requirements would be far harder to deal with than accepting the shield mostly hidden by the sprite.

What kind of requirements? Well, off the top of my head:

- New art for every character -- attack frames, mainly (depending on the scope of the changes, either dual-wielding weapons would require even more frames or you would only attack with one weapon); this would lead to:
- Some sort of 'extended NPC shapes' for NPCs; currently, NPCs have at most 32 frames, as frames 32-63 are "rotations" of frames 0-31 and shapes with more than 32 frames are not rotated; this would mean that:
- Lots of new usecode or usecode *hacks* would be needed to deal with such extended NPC shapes without breaking the original games;
- Another consequence of the extended NPC shapes would be that large portions of the Exult code would have to be double-checked to ensure that they are handled correctly;
- New data for every NPC: hot-spots for every frame (including any new ones) with the location of the "hot-spots" (the normal hand already has such data for all frames; but any new frames would need to add data for both hands)*;
- For completeness, new paperdoll art for every weapon and shield showing the weapon in the left hand and the shield in the right hand.

The item with an asterisk would also be required for displaying the shield behind the character (which would also require some art -- shields viewed from the back side). All of these items are due to limitations imposed by the original games upon Exult, BTW. And before anyone asks: no, I don't have any idea of how those hypothetical 'extended NPC shapes' could work without breaking the game in one way or another. Nor have I thought much about it; I literally came up with those points by thinking while I wrote this post.

Adding a shield display initially sounded so simple, right?

[Paulon]

You could simplify matters by cheating like UO. I don't know about the 3D client, but the 2D one just mirrors the animations, so the hands used for swords and shields swap depending on the direction faced.

[marzo]

U7, SI and Exult already do that; the end result is that the shield is covered by the body, with no way around it other than adding new attack frames using the other hand to attack. Because no, there is no way to programatically generate these sorts of frames given what the sprites look like in U7/SI.

[Skutarth]

Nope, just change it so the weapon isn't rotated with the sprite, so it can be displayed behind it like it's in the right hand. Then you could have the shield always on the left hand and have it look something like this:

[Skutarth]

Whoops, you're right about the attack frames.
You could always just cheat on those and have the shield disappear or something, though.

[marzo]

That is an ugly cheat; lo and behold, suddenly, the shield disappears and the weapon switches to the other hand just as you strike, only to return to their previous place after you are done. What would be the point of displaying shields if you are going to do this?

[Skutarth]

It was also an ugly cheat to put fake features onto the back of the Serpent Isle box.