Pentagram still alive?

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:30 pm

Okay I finished Ultima VIII! Great job with Pentagram really!

Now a few other things I have noticed:

I used the spell to kill undeads on a skeleton in the Obsidian Fortress. And oddly enough it also killed a ghoul that was nearby. Speaking of which I seem to recall non-Sorcery magic was not supposed to be working in the Fortress, but this might have been changed with the patch.

In Lithos' city of the dead where you get the Heart of the Earth. The bench there looked as if they were floating on the air rather than the ground.

I first used the spell to get in the void while in Tenebrae with Pyros' sending his flames and such... and this lead to a reddish screen in the Ethearal void which it shouldn't have.

The credits did not start after seeing the Ending as they should have.

Now this is an already existing U8 bug, but I was thinking perhaps there is a way to have Beren's conversation when you first get to the Demon's crag fixed to work properly? I'm pretty sure this was caused by the patch actually since I do remember having the full speech the first time I played U8

In any case these were all minor issues.

On the whole I've been very impressed with Pentagram - it really did felt like playing the actual game except with higher resolution which is nice.

I would say if the major issues (that would be holes and hires bugs) gets fixed and a more user friendly config tool is integrated, I would say this could very much be release as it as 1.0 version.

Post by **wjp** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:52 pm

Great!

Do you have savegames for these issues? Especially just before going to the Ethereal Void with the red glow, and before Beren's talk would be useful.

Post by **wjp** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:24 pm

Strange: I've just tried the Slayer hole, and have no trouble at all falling through when walking with the medium-sized arrow.

BansheeX · Post by **BansheeX** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:33 am

Sorry for the late reply. When it freezes, the console usually says this:

"try to access stack of non-existant process. (pid: 1)
process 1 caused an error. killing process..."

It doesn't always freeze when it says this, just sometimes. Basically, I can't move, but everything around me can. So it's not a total game freeze.

BansheeX · Post by **BansheeX** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:52 am

I upgraded to the 2010 build and haven't encountered the freezing anymore. Will let you know if I do.

Post by **wjp** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:59 am

gruck, Sergorn: did either of you encounter issues like this one?
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=471706

Post by **wjp** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:00 am

BansheeX: that's a very puzzling error message, since it contradicts itself. We've had a similar report back in 2008: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=471706

gruck/dungy · Post by **gruck/dungy** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:12 am

No, I never has a problem with cutscenes.

Post by **wjp** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:17 am

Thanks; looks like shadowchaser's patch indeed fixed that then.

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:37 am

I have a save priori to the Ethereal Void - not to sure about getting before Beren though, I'll have to look.

Regarding the hole, I've just tried again the one fo the Assassin. ANd of course It worked this time! So I'm not sure.

And like Dungy, I never had any problem with the cutscenes, they all worked like they should.

-Sergorn

Post by **wjp** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:27 am

A savegame for Beren turns out not to be necessary. Simply teleporting to 25 20248 24760 64 will already let you trigger his conversation. It did work entirely when I just tried it in Pentagram, though. I seem to recall this scene being rather buggy in the original too, by the way, so it could be that the scripts running it aren't very robust, or depend on the avatar position or something.

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:04 pm

Well according to the Ultima wiki:

"Beren's dialogue, when reaching the lava river after cooling it partly off, is buggy. Most of his lines vanish. The cause are flag problems. This can be avoided by either never talking to him, or angering him in Tenebrae and denying an apology. "

I seem to recall having the full line the first couple of time I played Ultima VIII before the patch, so I always thought this was a bug triggered by it.

Now since this is an already existing but in U8, it's not exactly important for Pentagram to fix that, but I figure it might be nice if that's doable without too much hassle.

-Sergorn

Post by **wjp** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:44 pm

Looking at the usecode, it seems quite intentional that he doesn't really speak to you if you've already met Beren (unless you angered him). There's no text for the situation that he does know you (except if he's also angry.)

The opening lines are:

Very angry: "Foolish one. You have journeyed far to come to your death in this place. I can only assume that you were the idiot who sent torrents of water flowing through this cavern. And I suppose you were unaware that this chamber is our first deterrent against possible incursions from the outside world. You will die for your ignorance, knave!"

A bit angry: "I can only assume that by your presence here that you were the fool who caused torrents of water to come flowing through this chamber. "

Haven't met: "I know not who you are, but you are quite resourceful to have come to this place. Welcome to the Mouth of the Daemon. This cavern was once the first test for those wishing to join the Sorcerer's Cabal. Someone... has rendered it mostly useless by directing an underground river this way. Quite a remarkable thing to do, don't you agree? "

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:43 pm

I'm having a problem with building Pentagram in Mac OS 10.5.8 (PPc). The actual compiling works just fine. There are no errors and the binary runs just fine, but making an app bundle fails. The complete output when trying 'make bundle' is:

common.mk:42: warning: overriding commands for target 'clean-tools'
common.mk:42: warning: ignoring old commands for target 'clean-tools'
make: *** No rule to make target 'bundle'. Stop.

The last time I built Pentagram on my Mac was back in February. Making the bundle worked then. Something may have changed but me looking at line 42 of common.mk wasn't very enlightening.

Post by **Dominus** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:59 pm

Meddling you can't yet "make bundle" with Pentagram, when you build Pentagram the unix way (./configure && make).
Only if you do it with watt's special makefile.macosx can you "make -f makfeile.macosx bundle".
I'll see about adding the bundle option next week or so.

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:14 pm

I'd actually wonder if the "bit angry" line isn't the one supposed to be there in regular case - It would seem logical considering you can only get the deamon's crag after Hydros has been freed.

But in any case it really feels like you're missing some dialogue when Beren talk to you. Not a big deal (and of course it's an issue in the original game in any case) but well... It'd not like UVIII doesn't have a lot of plot holes and such in any case

-Sergorn

BansheeX · Post by **BansheeX** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:29 pm

There's nothing wrong with fixing bugs that were there in the original game if they obviously weren't intended to be there. I think it's more important to deliver "how they intended it to be" than "how it was". Otherwise, I wouldn't be using Pentagram, I'd be using dosbox. Still, I understand people's aversion to making improvements without the consent of the original designers. I rather liked all the modest little improvements exult made to U7, like the party healthbars and such while anything that would have changed a core element of the game was made optional, like arranged music and replacement graphics.

Gruck/Dungy · Post by **Gruck/Dungy** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:40 am

By the way, I love the changes you made to gravity. Things are no longer getting stuck in walls any more, and that makes things far more fun.

Post by **wjp** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:10 am

Good to hear

Post by **wjp** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:30 am

Looking through the bug tracker some more... did you encounter this bug?

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=471706

Gruck/Dungy · Post by **Gruck/Dungy** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:29 am

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=471706

Did not occur with me. The Avatar walked to the correct position, but that post tends to imply the Avatar was outside of the main building when he talked to Vividos. I'll check that out.

Gruck/Dungy · Post by **Gruck/Dungy** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:43 am

I think I figured out the person. The problem is using the arrows keys to move instead of walking properly often messes up the game. I redid the final scene before talking to Vividos while holding the dagger, but instead of walking to Vividos, I moved to Vividos with the arrow keys. Vividos was outside of the main building, and not beside Lothian like he is meant to be. That caused the entire cutscene to become messed up. I restored the same game and then walked properly to Vividos upon entering the Graveyard, and Vividos was in the appropriate position and the cutscene proceeded normally.

The same error can be found in the scene where you are supposed to inter Lothian. If you used the arrow keys instead of walking, then Lothian will still be on the slab when you are supposed to inter her, and not in the correct position.

This bug is solely due to cheating, since it causes the player to miss some important egg that must be located somewhere between the entrance to the graveyard and Vividos's position.

I'll post a savegame where the Avatar has the dagger and meets Vividos in the wrong position to the bug-tracker.

Gruck/Dungy · Post by **Gruck/Dungy** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:49 am

OK, I'm not allowed to post a save game to that report for some reason, but I think you should be OK.

Post by **wjp** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:22 am

Thanks for the analysis!

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:01 am

Dominus, I'm a fool. It's been so long I'd forgotten the correct way to build Pentagram on a Mac. Thanks for the reminder.

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:20 pm

On a side note, I forgot to mention that I used Quicksave extensively while playing the game and it didn't cause any issues.

Post by **wjp** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:50 pm

Good to hear. Our savegame system should allow saving at any time whatsoever, including during cutscenes.

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:52 pm

Aye aye, I did try saving during cutscenes and it worked

Gruck/Dungy · Post by **Gruck/Dungy** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:48 pm

Ghost sub-plot
I've been wanting to test the ghost sub-plot, but I can't seem to remember what steps need to be taken. I talked to Darion who said to talk to the herdsmen about the ghost. I talked to the two individuals in the area north of Tenebrae, but Corinth refuses to mention the topic and Gwillim just tells me to bugger off. My understanding is they were supposed to be a little more forthcoming. I assume this is something on my part I'm doing wrong since I'm having the same problem in the original U8, but can anyone help me out with this subquest?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:57 pm

The basic path in the official clue book is:

Orlok
Jenna
Darion
Gwillim
Corinth
Gwillim
Cave (try to open door)
Gwillim
Kilandra 3x
grave

I think there was possibly a need to complete some of the plot as this quest has also caused me problems in the past. You need the aerial servant spell to actually retrieve the armor as far as I know.

Post by **wjp** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:05 pm

You should be able to have Corinth tell you that Gwillim saw the ghost at this point.

If I read the usecode correctly, this should be the conversation with Corinth:

------

What do you do?

"As we live in the country, away from most people, I do many things. Since my son did move away I am not as busy as I once was. "

Your son?

"My dear Cyrrus. I am so proud of him. His father and I are but simple people. But Cyrrus will do great things. "

Simple folk.

"Look about you, my lord. Does this look like the home of a wealthy family? Ours are not easy lives, yet we are proud people. Not many can do what we do. And our family has lived in this valley and worked the land for generations. "

You've been here for generations?

"Oh yes. There used to be a great many families that lived in the valley. But that was long ago. Now, only Gwillim and I are left to keep the legacy of the valley alive. "

What happened to the others?

"Well, there was a great war long, long ago. That was the beginning of the end, I suppose. Since that time, many people believed that the land was cursed. Many people died and many others moved away. "

Cursed? By a ghost, perhaps?

"Yes! How did you know that? "

----

After this it doesn't matter what you say, and you should be able to confront Gwillim about it.

Gruck/Dungy · Post by **Gruck/Dungy** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:09 pm

Thanks, I need to try this out!

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:49 pm

There is no message about not finding Ultima 8 data files in either the installer or Pentagram. Pentagram will just show a too quick to read startup text and the Pentagram background.

I can't seem to find any output files in Windows XP. I thought they used to exist.

Post by **Dominus** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:56 pm

@MeddlingMonk, I added the necessary stuff to the normal build system.
So with "./bootstrap", "./configure", "make", "make bundle" you should succeed now.
This will only make a dynamic built, only working on your machine, but for making a static built you need to
"./configure --with-macosx-static-lib-path=pathtoyourstaticlibs(for example /opt/local/lib for macports and /sw/lib for Fink)"
then "make bundle" and if you want a snapshot image, "make image".

If you have more questions on this, please open a new thread (as to not clutter this too much with built things).

Corpsecrank · Post by **Corpsecrank** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:17 pm

This working with win7 64? I been itching to play u8 again. This is one project I would love to see turn out like exult did.

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:47 pm

Why shouldn't it work on Windows 64bit? Almost all 32bit programs work in 64bit Windows...

MeddlingMonk · Post by **MeddlingMonk** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:07 pm

It works for me on Windws 7 64 bit. (Although it doesn't on Fedora 14 64 bit. Just freezes on startup. Pentagram, not the computer.)

Corpsecrank · Post by **Corpsecrank** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:31 pm

"Why shouldn't it work on Windows 64bit? Almost all 32bit programs work in 64bit Windows..."

Well I wasn't concerned about the fact it is 64bit. I was more concerned with if it were compatible with my OS or not. I understand that most 32bit apps run fine in 64bit environments.

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:14 pm

Anyone having problems with the use of sorcery in pentagram? Thanks

Post by **wjp** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:04 pm

I'm guessing you do? If so, please explain the problem.

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:37 am

LOL!
Yes, wjp, i´m having this problem...
Thing is, i put the reagents, candles, focus and so on and click on the pentagram and it just won´t work... If I step into the pentagram and click it, I receive the message that i´m standing too close. If it lacks reagents, again, I receive the message that it lacks reagents and so on. But if everything is fine, nothing happens...
Any hints?

Post by **wjp** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:34 pm

Do you have the patched version of Ultima 8? (2.12 or higher)

It's hard to say what might be wrong from your description. Could you send us a savegame?

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:13 pm

Sure. Which email?

Post by **wjp** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:12 pm

(I got the savegame.)

Interesting... it's failing because the ObjID of the focus is greater than 32767. I'll have to look at this in more detail. I filed a bug report on our bug tracker to make sure I don't forget.

Post by **wjp** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:01 pm

Was in a bit of a rush earlier... translation: the game's scripts are doing something wrong, but it's possible that's because we're putting them in an unexpected situation. (Or it could be an actual U8 bug.)

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:20 pm

To those not instructed in the programmers language it means? LOL
Thanks for the hurry!

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:31 pm

Oh, just now I noticed you´ve already translated! Lol!
So, what´s your suggestion? Thanks again!

Post by **wjp** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:22 pm

I've committed the first part of a fix for this, but that only affects new games, not existing savegames. Still thinking about if it can be fixed for existing saves.

Rafaelvetuff · Post by **Rafaelvetuff** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:09 am

Hey, good news! I´ve downloaded the new version of pentagram, opened the old savegame and... Voilá! It worked just fine! Thanks a lot!

JC Denton · Post by **JC Denton** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:30 am

Hello!

I have one question concerning Pentagram project, but it's not about Ultima. It's about another game running on (somewhat modified) Ultima VIII engine - Crusader series (No Remorse and No Regret).

I've seen some screenshots of Crusader on the Pentagram website, and I'm wondering how did you do that.

Also, what I've seen looked like a level editor...

I've tried some .ini file editing, but all I got is Crusader: No Remorse being listed in Pentagram menu. When I click on PLAY GAME, something happens for a brief moment, and then it crashes with no error.

Any thoughts?