Exult and Forum to Fix Serpent Isle?

[Dalponis]

Hey guys:

I think we have enough people around here to consider something. We should get Serpent Isle fixed, so that it actually makes sense.

Like how the great earth serpent says that Serpent Isle is saved... Yeah, Serpent Isle and it's all of like 10 people left on it. I smell a lot of inbreeding going around.

Many plot elements were dropped, but I'd like to help work on getting the game to where it should of been. Since Exult makes the game work so well on modern computers, we shouldn't let this gem die.

[Kensu]

I was thinking about this the other day, mostly about restoring all the lost content we have from the Moonshade design document. But then I remembered why no one ever bothered: we have less than a third of the information we need.
Originally there was no fight in the White Dragon castle, you fought the Banes in each of the three cities. If we restored Moonshade, we'd have to do something similar for Fawn and Monitor, and we don't have the design documents necessary; so we'd have to make it up.

Not to mention the Claw Isle plot, which I'm sure everyone else wanted to see at least the document of.

As such, I suppose we could restore all of the content from the Moonshade doc, and just leave the battle with Shamino out. It would make the game feel lopsided, though.

[Jaesun9]

There was discussion on this here a while ago:

http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9814#p9814

there is also some info here:

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_Materi ... rpent_Isle

If only Sheri Graner Ray or one of the other Origin devs could.... accidentally release the (original) design docs for all three towns, that would be incredibly awesome. But that's not going to happen.

[Korneluk]

Well, even without the "official" story, something could still be done. Take what framework exists and write what you will. You have the idea of the three cities being seized by the Banes, more written for Moonshade. We know that the people of SI were not meant to be killed en masse.
What they planned may not have been to everyone's liking, so here's a chance to make what you think would be cool. There's plenty i dislike about BG and SI, even though they might be my favorite games.

[Korneluk]

http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9814#p9814

http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10061#p10061

Maybe you've read these threads, but, if not, there's some interesting information as well as links.

[Andrea B Previtera]

I am not sure heavily modifying SI is a good idea. Ok, there are quest in BG that just need a couple flags to be set, some usecode to be fixed, and so on. That's good.

But modifying SI y actually adding stuff that was left out from the original? It may just be me - but most of the eerieness of Serpent Isle comes from the emtpy places, the apparently meaningless zones, the plotholes.

The retouched SI won't be strictly better or worse than the original, but for sure it would be different.

[agentorangeguy]

I"ve always thought if this were to be done, it would be awesome to confront each bane in its respective city first. That would still have some of the original plots, such as witnessing Shamino as the magelord.. maybe killing him transports him to the White Dragon... then killing Iolo and Dupre in their cities does the same, and then you have the final showdown in the White Dragon as normal.

For Monitor, it would be cool to flesh out the goblin invasion more, like having more goblin NPC's there taking over the city, or Dupre selecting a "general"...such as a new Goblin King of sorts....and maybe having a sidequest instituted where Harrna is captured and awaiting death (getting ready to be cooked) then you take her out of monitor and re-unite her with Cantra at monk isle. It always weirded me out when Harrna acted as everything was fine, even when goblins controlled the city.

Fawn would require a bit more thinking. the city was a bit boring. I would think having it turn into a "resort" for pirates, theives, and other rogues would make sense being that the ruler of Fawn kept a tight reign on who came in or not.

Moonshade could probably be remade as originally intended from what I remember of the plot. I remember something about witnessing the execution of Bucia or something like that which could be done pretty easy with usecode.

[Kensu]

For those keeping score at home:

Moonshade: Could be done by a committed team of coders and writers. There are some tricky bits (the magic toupee, turning the Philander's Friend back into a vibrator, changing the brass-bottled potion into the petrification cure) but there is enough information to restore the lost content from Moonshade.

Monitor: More difficult, but possible. We would need to have designers who could extrapolate from the early plot document to make it fit in with the rest of the game. We would also need a complete set of NPC art for the transformed townspeople, as well as art of Dupre with each of the Totem animal's heads.

Fawn: Impossible. Without a town plot document, we have nowhere to start.

Claw Isle: Difficult, but I think this would be a hell of a lot of fun to do. It would be necessary to change the catacombs map so an entrance to this place could be found. You would also have to design a town's worth of NPCs from scratch, not to mention creating new weapons (what kind of hand weapons do the Kilrathi use? I imagine there'd be a ray gun in here somewhere.) Also a crashed Jalthi or whatever ship the Kilrathi was using.

[Jaesun9]

There is this info on Faun from http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_Materi ... rpent_Isle I have no idea where this source comes from though.

There are less fragments concerning Fawn. From what can be reconstructed, Iolo the Mad took the city under his control and caused madness. He still cursed Lady Yelinda in the release, but instead of killing the citizens, he let lose vermin and plague (as he did in the release), enjoying the vain citizens turning uglier with each passing hour under such horrible conditions.

Some things can be reconstructed from a scroll found on Leon's body:

Honor be to thee, dear reader. This piece of parchment is mine only means of communication with thee. Mad Iolo cruelly removed my tongue, that I might lead by example and not by words!

I am so disenchanted... I cannot bear the fact that I could not save the city from further plagues. Moreover, there is absolutely no sign of the return of Batlin.

What is going to happen? Thou shouldst tell me, I beg of thee.

It means that Mad Iolo would have ruled the town with twisted metaphors, as they are found all over the place even in the final game. Thus what he did to Yelinda, would have made Ruggs prominent and cut out Leon's tongue for the "lead by example" reason.

Sounds like a good base to start from.

[andar_b]

I would have imagined the Kilrathi using similar weapons to the Klingons from the Star Trek universe(s), realized as extensions of their natural claws and fangs. Curved, slicing weapons, like the (forgive my ignorance of proper Klingon spelling lol) Ba'tleth for instance.

Perhaps antiques left from their arrival, such as blasters resembling bowcasters from Star Wars, working or not.

[Dalponis]

I was thinking mostly about how everyone in Serpent Isle is dead at the end of the game and everyone is so happy about it: that needs to change.

If someone wants to work on this stuff, I'm in.

[dalponis]

One can dream...

[Crowley]

But The Many can accomplish.

[paulo]

I vote against a mass resurrection plot if it happens.

(though just eliminating the general killings would be enough for that, but i don't really like that).

It's part of SI feel to be tragic and fucked up, the gargoyles in decadence, the humans too, the ancient civilization dead, the new one too, and for the same cause.

It's a good lead in to ultima 8 too.

It could be just a final joke. Let's say the townspeople are already dead, but the power of the Banes is sustaining them as twisted caricatures. So when you confront them at the end on the castle, and they feel pressed, they gather their energy again, "re-killing" the people.

This could fit in ok with Fawn lady. You don't think the comb of beauty REALLY healed those horrific wounds did you?

[paulo]

The castle or the cut confrontation at the cities hummm.

[agentorangeguy]

if your going to do something with serpents isle, how about the immediate aftermath - what happens after the avatar goes to Pagan? how did the companions get home? what happened to serpents isle?

it would be cool to make a mod dealing with some sort of aftermath, how SI is reconstructed, what remnants are behind, and so on.

[agentorangeguy]

by the way, I actually thought of a plot about that but obviously working on the u6 mod I don't have time to do it. If anyone is interested in working on that, let me know via email (my screen name) at yahoo dot com

[Achile Dragon]

There a fix that could be fun. Hawk (post-holocaust) give his key to his chest in Moonshade room before he dies and give the permission to use the Arabella. It make much sense that Fedabiblio (the Magister of Moonshade) to give his key.

[andar_b]

I could help with some sprites, don't know if I'd have the stuff to help with coding or Exult Studio stuff (I've often wanted to make a mod with an interesting fortress or something, but I don't know about the learning curve of ES.)