LB's Last Will

[Pegbyter]

Is it possible to insert a dialog option into the mix to allow you to confront LB with his will if you have it in your possession? I'd love it to be an embarrassing/awkward moment for him... Maybe even have him pay you off with something (maybe a few thousand gold coins) to keep you quiet or something...


Peg.

[Dungy]

The problem is, he's usually already dead when you obtain his last will and testament.

[Pegbyter]

yeah, but you can always cast resurrect on him unless you killed him with arcadion. And he acts like it never happened..

[MeddlingMonk]

My first thought to this was, "Why not just pickpocket him?"

My second thought was, "You've been playing waaay too much Skyrim."

It's probably best if the will is just ignored, considering the only way to get it is to murder LB. All he has to do to keep you quiet is to threaten to lock you away for life for regicide if you don't just hand the will over and slink away.

[Pegbyter]

LOL!

[Pegbyter]

I can see it now.."Whats up with THIS buddy???" You ask...
LB "WTF? Where did you get that? GUARDS!!!"

[Pegbyter]

Actually, now that I think about it, even if you cant confront him, then surely you should be able to show it to Nell; her parents, brother, and her fiancee.. A little Blackmail can go a long way; especially if you can use it to uncover some unknown Fellowship secrets... That would make it an interesting side quest other than just getting a warm and fuzzy moment from not betraying confidences to Nell's brother...

Peg.

[Dominus]

it should be relatively simple to add to the BG keyring mod so that LB has a special dialog when the will is in your party.
Possibilities:
1. simple recognition dialog and that's it
2. calling guards, ending your life...
3. all good aligned NPCs stop speaking to you, bad ones applaud you, you will need to pass a quest to continue with the game...

Happy usecode editing now!

[Pegbyter]

Something like that would be perfect, especially the redemption quest idea.

Peg

[MeddlingMonk]

If LB's will is made into a mini-plot device, maybe there should be a way to obtain it other than murdering LB. The gambler (forgot the name) you meet in New Magincia, who is obviously an illegitimate son of LB, could be given a secondary scheme, in addition to the one about kidnapping whatsername, that involves the will and blackmail.

[Pegbyter]

I like the idea; being able to Blackmail LB and sabotage Nell's future and good name; not to mention capitalizing on his other illegitimate son... Perfect! Unless of course LB coughs up some serious cash (say 10-20 grand or so) or a second stat increase to 60! (other than str)
Granted these are very Un-avatar like things to do; but hey; who says they cant be used for the greater good? After all, LB is obviously lacking in Honesty, Honor, and Humility and possibly Spirituality in this case!!!

Dishonest because he wont fess up to sleeping with his chambermaid.. You have to kill him to get the truth out of him. (the will)

Dishonorable because of hiding the affair and putting the onus on her fiancee and being ok with Nell lying about it; especially allowing her parents and brother to be completely in the dark!

Humility goes out the window on this one completely! How humble are you when you let your personal urges get in the way of your professional duties as King? He couldn't even marry her legitimately and make her Queen? Not very noble of him!

Sounds like our king needs a refresher course in the 8 virtues himself! Especially since he created them! He rattles his saber by making the Avatar jump through endless hoops for his own ends while not abiding by those same virtues himself...

He's most likely spiritually empty too to pull something as underhanded as this, either that or he's completely morally bankrupt!

Suddenly, Blackmailing ole LB doesn't look like such a bad idea anymore...

Thoughts?

Peg

[Dominus]

Nah, you're his friend...

[Pegbyter]

Ahh; how true, but he needs to be punished! *Giggles*

Tell you what; I'll meet him halfway by crawling out of the sewers to meet him in the gutter!

Peg

[MeddlingMonk]

Yeah, the Avatar (you) is supposed to be LB's friend, like Dom said.

I must have expressed myself badly: my intended meaning was that it is the bastard (in the technical sense) gambler who would be the one planning to blackmail LB, and that this is a second scheme (in addition to but separate from the existing one involving the young woman in New M).

In the game as it is, the gambler is portrayed as being somewhat obsessed about LB. He'd certainly have reasons to be, and reasons to be resentful if paternity were never acknowledged (considering the perks that would go along with that). So, if LB's will were to have somehow made its way into his hands, he might plan on using it to blackmail LB into acknowledging him as his son (and so giving him power and wealth).

As LB's avatar, you'd want to 86 that scheme if it reached your ears.

This wouldn't be a very involved quest. There would be, really, only some additional dialog and a copy of the will in the gambler's inventory. You (probably) kill him anyway to rescue whatsername from being kidnapped, and...oh, dear! What's this you've found in his pockets? Better bring that to LB right away!

[Pegbyter]

Yeah; I guess I was thinking with my evil avatar hat on.... Muhaha!!!
But. if there was an evil way to play the game.. That would certainly be the way to go about it!

Alas, LB's not the avatar so it's only expected he have human failings....

Be that as it may.. Monk... Your idea is actually is an excellent subplot... Retrieve the 2nd copy of the will from the blackmailer and return it to LB... Which is definitely more in line with the Avatar's behavior....

Peg.

[agentorangeguy]

Funny thread here. A few questions/comments I have-

- What was the relation between the guy in New Maginica and Lord British? Did I miss something, or does the game imply they were connected somehow?

- from memory, wasn't Nell also nailing the puppet guy with the funky mustache, and someone else? It seemed she wasn't sure whos baby it was, although LB thought it was his. HOWEVER, it would still be an awesome subplot. An idea: re-impliment the U6 Pickpocket spell (which I am hoping is possible to pull up the pickpocket cheat somehow in usecode? perhaps going on a quest to find a mage who could teach it?

[Pegbyter]

Yeah; I think Nell is two timing the puppet guy with LB...

As far as the spells; I'll start another thread for that...

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread about Blackmailing LB! Either from the "Evil...Er Goodly Avatar attempting to correct our wayward Liege's aberrant behavior "... Or our hero helping our deranged ignoble King... LOL!

Now Peg... Repeat after me... "Thou Shalt Not defile Lord British!"

*snif"

[agentorangeguy]

I wonder if it is possible to snatch the will without cheating and killing him? One thing that comes to mind, using dirty diapers on him causing him to flee. *In theory* he could drop the scroll.... as fleeing npcs would drop things. I've not seen him drop anything but he will run to a corner and toss lightning bolts at you.

[Pegbyter]

Ah yes, The dirty diaper scheme! I've done that to him too, and if you do it to the children too many times with them saying AAAAIIIEEEEE!!! Then the old woman who watches them wont talk to you anymore... I usually disarm LB though so he can't get too dangerous... Through PP of course... Then I kill the old woman for refusing to acknowledge me and then mass murder everyone in the castle.. After which I hit restore...

Good idea about him dropping the will however with the diaper trick... But we still need the conversation tree to have him acknowledge it... Marzo!!!!!! Where are you??? LOL!

I told you LB was deranged; not only does he get quickies from his chambermaid; he also wears dirty diapers!!! *LOL*

Peg

[MeddlingMonk]

Going back to agentorangeguy's first question, the game strongly implies that the gambler (I simply cannot remember his name!) on New M is the illegitimate son of LB. His character portrait looks (to me) like a younger, beardless version of LB; and the gambler's companions make remarks about the gambler's apparent obsession with LB and stop just short of strongly implying a blood relationship.

Since it is only implied, I'm sure different people will see this differently. But the real LB, because of his SCA involvement, is probably aware that the illegitimate (and frequently legitimate but junior) offspring of royalty and nobility were often just cut loose to fend for themselves. I suspect, but can't really prove, that this is the gambler's situation. And that in turn gave me the idea of how the will could be used as an actual plot device.

[Pegbyter]

Very interesting supposition.. Now that could go far as a subplot.

Peg.

[John Tennyson]

LB friend to the avatar.... hahahahaha no.

Is this the same LB that has had you jumping through hoops for him for 9 games (1-7,7.5 and the abomination)... Who locked a princess in his dungeon in Ultima 1 to keep you from getting your hands on his time machine.

Who has all these earth shattering powers but can't seem to cast remove ass from throne until in the abomination that shant be named.

Who keeps calling on you for help but never once thinks, hey maybe I should keep the avatar's full set of armor and spellbook safe for him/her so when they go on these quests to save my kingdom they won't have to find one again.

The one who didn't want to work with the gargoyles until the avatar all but made him...

Who by all accounts staged a world wide coup banishing all the dissenters?

Blackmail sounds like the perfect revenge

[John Tennyson]

Actually now that I think about it, killing LB is the right thing to do... after all from the book of prophecies:

"This evil one is of another race, who consider the evil one a great prophet. Yet this false prophet follows not the principles of Control, Passion and Diligence. One day the prophet will come and desecrate our most holy shrine. And the false prophet will steal our most holy artifact, the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom. This shall be the first sign of the end."

The avatar didn't do that... it was LB that stole the codex (raising it) when you were done with it, it was still in the void where it belonged.

"Then, it is written, the false prophet shall descend deep into the bowels of the earth. And the false prophet will cause the underworld to collapse. This will cause great earthquakes to tear our world asunder, and there will be a time of plague and famine. This shall be the second sign of the end."

Again it was LB that had the orb of the moons and knew how to use it... not the Avatar. All the avatar did is act as the UPS guy and delivered it to him.

So the obvious thing to do is to sacrifice Lord British before it is too late

[Pegbyter]

Muahahaha!!!! I love this guy!!! John, You're a man after my own heart!

YES!!! I say we banish LB using his own Orb of the Moons; Ransack his castle and have a public BURNING of his things in the center of Britain!!!

Oh, and also reinstate Blackthorn as Regent!!! (After all, if we stop with Ultima 7.5; he do learn he redeemed himself as a Monk on Monk Isle! We don't see him siring several Illegitimate children and denying them!)

Seriously though; Before the haters descend upon us to state that LB and the Avatar are the best of buds; there actually is a large grain of truth; however painful it may be for some of us to admit; in our above assumptions...

If given even some semi-some serious thought, If LB attempted the Quest of the Avatar on his own, which really he should have done himself to serve as the shining example to his own subjects rather than getting a complete stranger to do it for him.... He would be failing so miserably at it that he would be hearing Hawkwinds voice ringing in his ears; lambasting him for being as "Low as a Slug".. He could only wish to hear the golden words "Thou Hast Lost An Eighth!!!"
Yet the Avatar; whom by all accounts is a saint walking on Britannian soil, bows knee to this man every time our Monarch calls upon him to save the world..

He calls upon the Avatar to do all his dirty work since Mondain's reign; and then despite centuries of faithful service lets us take the fall for an entire race of beings by letting them nail the blame on the avatar as The False Prophet! Despite everything you outlined in your above posts that proves that LB was directly responsible for it all!
Even in the beginning of Ultima VI; he couldn't be bothered to "Cast remove ass from throne" to help kill the 3 gargoyles that were throwing boomerangs 5 FEET IN FRONT OF HIS THRONE! Instead he sat there completely oblivious to it.. Well, him, AND Nystul, AND Sir Jefforey!!!

And people wonder why I put on my evil avatar hat sometimes...

*Sighs Deeply*

Peg

[Pegbyter]

Looks like we made everyone's jaws drop to the floor on this one John! They're all completely speechless; LOL!!!

Peg.

[TDI]

Lord British is simply misunderstood. He is not an evil man. The truth is that LB is completely clueless.

[Pegbyter]

Well, that much I will certainly grant you!

Peg.

[MeddlingMonk]

LB was certainly clueless in UIX. "I don't know what to do" certainly summed him up in that game. I suppose that's why Richard finally dragged the old guy out of his castle and killed off the Avatar: she had become a crutch for the old boy.

[Pegbyter]

Oh indeed.. In UIX he actually apologizes to the Avatar by actually admitting that he was sorry that they always relied on him to be the sole saviour of Britannia rather than his original intent of using the Avatars shining example of leadership during the events of U4 to stir others into action...

LB; in establishing the 8 virtues for everyone; failed to take into account the basic human capacity for laziness...

Rule #1. An entire planetary populace is likely going to take the easy route when it comes to doing strenuous Physical & Mental training that they on some outside 1 in a 1,000,000 chance MIGHT achieve an virtually impossible goal; (Avatarhood) and maintain that status for life without ever losing an eighth!

Rule #2 People are generally unwilling to change their lives completely (LB included) in order to maintain some semblance of their regular everyday lives...

Result; They will wait for ONE person to achieve that challenge, then by default human nature, call upon him/her to save the world whenever the need (however rarely arises)... In the case the Ultima, usually between several decades to several centuries; and knowing that since he is not a native Britannian, he is virtually immortal compared to the rest of the populace.. i.e. no need to keep attempting to look for a new avatar every 30 years or so as the old one ages out of circulation.. The first one will do just fine every time.. So no worries..

Peg.

[Pegbyter]

Ok, who's up for writing a mod to remove the clueless LB from power and reinstall the newly reformed Regent/Humble Monk Blackthorn in his place? Now that the Shadowlords are no longer around to corrupt his original ideals; he should make a worthy substitute... C'mon Dom!!! Let's kick this into high gear!!! There seems to be a growing support base for the idea here...

The Avatar is quite frankly entitled to lop off his head with a little assistance from Arcadion and impale his body against the wall of his throne room with a fellowship staff...

I'm not an evil Avatar; I just play one in Exult!!!

Now now Peg... Dare to dream...

*cries softly in a corner*

We need to start a new thread... "LB Must DIE!!!" (And here are the reasons why!) LOL!!!
All those in favor of an Armed Insurrection say Aye!!!!

Peg.

[John Tennyson]

LOL that would be an awesome mod.

[agentorangeguy]

Hahaha that would be an interesting idea for a mod. "Grand Theft Britannia" where you become the Thugatar, paragon of the negative virtues.

I've always wondered too... WHY DID LB NOT HELP YOU IN U6!!!! I mean, 3 gargoyles would have been simple... he certainly doesn't have any qualms against frying your ass for touching his beloved fork.

Lord British: "Ah, the Avatar is in trouble! I -would- cast "remove ass from throne" but it appears I left mine bag of reagents in some wenches room at the Blue Boar while chasing peasant tail. Sir Geoffrey? Nystul?"

Geoffery: "I only have a little bit of dialogue in this game, and relatively no purpose whatsoever."

Nystul: "I'm only a minor plot device, and I lose my marbles 200 years from now. The Avatar will be ok."

[Pegbyter]

No doubt in U6 LB was just testing you to see if you were up to the job...

Peg.