Karl of Minoc & the Bee Cave couple

[Pegbyter]

I've been having an issue with Karl for some time now...

For some reason, no matter how many times I talk to Karl; he never tells me to take Owens plans (the scroll in his house) as proof of Owens crappy ship design, ever... This is after talking to literally everyone in town about Owen and the Monument... If I just take the scroll anyway and try to talk to Julia separately, I don't get a tree option to discuss the plans with her.. I'm presuming it's because Karl didn't mention them.

At first I just thought it was because I had missed something, either not talking to the right person, not exploring the right conversation tree(s), etc... but I've done all that with everyone involved to no avail.

As far as the naked couple in the bee cave are concerned, my understanding is that you are supposed to be able to get them to admit that they are really just a couple of tax cheats rather than primitive cavemen/women. Even with Tseramed in my party telling me that "It's all an act I tell you!" when I talk to them.. They still wont fess up... (I know..they have a natural aversion to him in your party.)

This sometimes makes me miss the days of UIV, V, & VI when you could just type in any desired query instead of "pick a canned response and hope the game is smart enough to figure out what you're trying to do"...

Has anyone else experienced this?

Peg.

[agentorangeguy]

Don't know. Did you talk to the one armed guy at the Minoc pub about Karl?

Speaking of Karl, I was just playing black gate to confirm the New Maginica rogue Robin/LB connection and I think Battles or Leavell mention they bought their ship from Minoc that broke apart at the first storm it encountered. It would be funny if you could tell them that Owen builds crappy ships and allow them to murder Owen themselves instead of having him commit suicide.

[Pegbyter]

Yep; I had both Karl and Rutherford in the pub at the same time; so I was able to click back and forth between them in rapid sequence to explore both of their conversation trees in their entirety. Same deal; Karl simply wont budge about mentioning the scroll in his house... That's why I'm wondering; is this an Exult bug? Or am I just not doing things in the correct order here?

Agentorangeguy, that would make for an interesting conversation point...

Normally i'd say that it's not in the Avatar's nature to play tattletale if it incites murderous behavior... However, there is one example I can cite offhand that leads to more or less the same thing.

You can betray Nell's secret to her brother and he turns away from you with "Murder in his eyes" as the game puts it.. We just never see the Fiancee (the mustached guy running the puppet show) actually get murdered later on in the game... Maybe that could be fixed?

Peg.

[Pegbyter]

Actually Rutherford doesn't even give me the option to talk about Karl...

Peg.

[agentorangeguy]

Another one of those tattletale moments is in Vesper, you can tell the little kid's mother or father about her seeing the gargoyle for stories, and I think they end up killing the gargoyle because you don't see him anymore. Oops!

[Pegbyter]

LOL! I'll have to try that one!

Peg.

[agentorangeguy]

Another "un-Avatarish" moment you can have is in Jhelom. I'm fairly certain you can bet against Sprellic in the duel, and go and kill him and cash in all your markers for money. I made a butt-ton of money with that quest once by betting all the money I could find, thousands of gold, on Sprellic to win, then I killed the guys in the duel. I made nearly 10 thousand gold haha.

[Pegbyter]

Oh I've pulled that one before.. And the funniest part, is that after the duel you can still have that tailor make the false flag for you.. He acts as if though it never took place... heheh!

Peg.

[Shaella]

Did you try talking to Karl near his house?

I didn't even know about Karl, and just happened to meet him when I was leaving Minoc, and found his home, and he was wandering nearby. There, he told me about the plans and told me I could take them.

[Crowley]

As I recall, to get the couple in the Bee Cave to confess, you need to hear Tseramed's suspicions, and then talk to them without Tseramed in your party.

[Pegbyter]

Oh... That makes sense... Thanks much!

Peg.

(Oh, any idea about Karl?)

[agentorangeguy]

Try reading the scroll, taking the scroll, and then talking to Karl and Julia. It seems like you have to talk to one of the guild people about building the statue of Owen maybe. Someone mentions how Karl's brother died on a ship Owen built and you go from there I think.

[Crowley]

I'm trying to think back, and I'm not sure I ever got Karl to talk about it either. It could be that I always just grabbed the plans from his shack. I think that you can then show the plans to the mayor, and he'll tell you he doesn't understand that stuff and suggests you talk to Julia about it.

[Crowley]

I took a look at the usecode and tested things a bit myself. You should talk to Jakher about Minoc, then monument and Owen, at which point he will mention Karl and his brother dying on one of Owen's ships. After that, you will be able to ask Karl about it and he will tell about stealing one of Owen's plans.

[Pegbyter]

Ahhh! Ok, thanks much for the input.. The usecode doesn't lie. At least now I can solve both of these quests...

Peg.

[Pegbyter]

Crowley, can you do me a favor and check the usecode for the bee cave people? I had Tseramed leave the party and wait outside of the bee cave entrance for me to return... I tried talking to "Papa" and he simply said "Go away Bee Killer" or words to that effect.. So I'm getting nowhere with him...

Oh, It worked out by talking to Jakher first.. Now I officially have one dead Owen on my hands that i'm sure i'll put to good use by continuing to decorate LB's castle with multitudes of the recently deceased placed in rather awkward positions throughout..
I'll probably have Owen commit suicide a few more times first by rezzing him and telling him over and over that his ships aren't worth a crap just for giggles; then put him in LB's bedroom as a wall fixture..

Thanks in advance...

Peg.

[Crowley]

It looks like if you get them angry once for being a bee killer, they will stay that way and not talk to you any further.

[Pegbyter]

Doh!

Ok, I'll revert to an earlier save to test it out.. Thanks much.

Peg.

[Pegbyter]

Well, I reverted to a very early save when they weren't mad at all, but after Tseramed exposed them as frauds; and Papa asked me if I were a bee killer, I said no.. I then had Tseramed leave the party..

When I re-entered the cave and talked to Papa again all I received was the same response... "Go away bee killer!"

I give up... Tell me, what did the usecode have them saying if exposed?

Peg

[Crowley]

You do not need to talk to them with Tseramed in the party. When you discuss nearby locations with him, and ask about the Bee Cave and the people living there, he will mention his suspicions. Then go talk to Papa without Tseramed, and eventually an option to question their story. As I recall, it was "Art thou from Yew?"

[Pegbyter]

Yeah, I got the truth out of them... Man, it took forever for that line of dialogue to be presented.. The funny part about it though, once they know that they've been had; and you have Tseramed in your party; they no longer object to his being there in the slightest... LOL!

Peg.

[Crowley]

Happy to be of help.

[Pegbyter]