Blackgate Mistakes??

[Bloodnyst]

Ok its been a long while since I beat the blackgate the first time but I noticed a few things while playing through not long ago through Exult...

2 things both at the cave behind the meditation retreat where you get the cube...

First..You are supposed to not to be able to get to the generator without the helms from ambrosia in NE corner of map..I checked online walkthroughs to make sure (something to do with loud noises won't let you proceed to it thus needing these magic helms).

Second (I liked this one)... when inside the cube generator puzzle, I moved just enough north.. the 2nd row of bars and used the Telekenesis spell to get the cube without having to solve the puzzle to get to the middle where the cube is. (Also online walkthroughs say you can't use magic inside there)..I thought the whole thing was a little too easy from I remember back in the day.

Dont know if these are Exult things they did away with or just overlooked mistakes but there you are..

[Dominus]

Hmm those sound like bugs in Exult. Can you provide a nice savegame? Best before the entrance with the caddelite helmets.

[Bloodnyst]

Ok I found a 2 saves...but they are where the group is already in the cave pretty much standing before the generator puzzle, 1 save with group and the other is just the group disbanded. I never went and got the helmets.. If you need em just link me to where you want them uploaded.

[Dominus]

can you send me the saves? Click on my profile to see the email address. Thanks

[Bloodnyst]

Just sent them over... let me know what you find out when you can.. just curious..

[Dominus]

as for the noise, aren't your companions dying because of this? Because they just did with your savegame "retreat" when I went north.

[bloodnyst]

Yeah they did die.. thats why before i just disbanded them a little bit before and still got in.. But didnt the Avatar have to have a helmet too? Like I said its been a long while since I played it and dont remember.. Online walkthroughs say a message it supposed to pop up saying you cant go any further due to intense ringing or noise.. and thats where the celestine helms come in. Also did see what I meant about the telekenesis spell lol...

[bloodnyst]

here is a link about no magic in the generator..

http://bootstrike.com/Ultima7bg/Online/cubegen.php

And I pulled this out of a GameFaq walkthrough about the noise...

Continue through the cavern and you will eventually
be confronted by a Female Warrior. Ignore her and continue to the Cube.
You will be hurt by the noise near the cube and have to leave. Use the Hour-
glass to talk to the Time Lord to discover that you need "Special Helmets"
made out of Caddellite, and tells you to talk to Brion at the observatory for
more information. Mark near the cube, and teleport to Moonglow (assuming you
Marked near Penumbra's house). Brion tells you that a meteor hit near the NE
sea and that Zorn could make a helmet out of Caddellite.

I'm not sure if quest gets triggered or not where my saves are.. as I never used the hourglass in that cavern.. Hope this helps

[Dominus]

in the original you can quickly run into the generator as well.
Just tested that
Now I only need an old save with a spell book

[Bloodnyst]

Yeah, at least thats one down..can't help you out on the original save though.. There's no way I would have been able to play through the game again without Exult...Im not a big fan of DosBox in general.

[Dominus]

Tested in the original and you are right, magic should not work in the generator. But it does in Exult -> bug...

Thanks

[Dominus]

Thanks to wjp the problem is now fixed and next snapshot should have it.
Also the Anti-Magic on Ambrosia wasn't working as well

So, many thanks for reporting that. Was only broken for almost exactly 2 years

[Bloodnyst]

Lol..glad you were able to fix that.. Will be starting Serpent Isle soon and Ill be sure to let you know if I find anything there as well...You guys ever need any help with anything let me know (have a lot of free time at the moment) , I used to work for Westwood Studios so I kinda know what I'm doing lol..have a good one!!

[Dominus]

First of all playing through the games with a snapshot and making lots of savegames and reporting bugs. For reporting bugs, best use our bug tracker at https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/ (you need to register with SourceForge or use OpenID) and if you want to openly discuss the bug, post here as well. The bug tracker helps in keeping *track* of the bugs so they won't get forgotten and you can attach screenshots and especially savegames.

If you feel like doing much more, we could really use additional coding help. Our development has been really slow for some time now because all our members are really busy with real life and some have been at it for over a dozen years

[Bloodmyst]

I wouldnt mind taking a look at some coding an hour or 2 a day... Ill register at sourceforge now and get that bug tracker also...Id prefer if you emailed me the details ( short or long, doesnt matter) what you need done. Thanks Dominus

[Dominus]

Mail sent

Interesting side note, your bug report about the cube generator unveiled another bug (I'd say both in the original and Exult).
After the destruction of the generator the Time Lord speaks to you without any (working?) check whether you actually met him and/or have the enchanted hourglass. So if you start a new game and cheat your way to the generator and destroy it you get an out of context Time Lord speech

Except in Exult you don't anymore. It was working back in 2001 with the 0.96beta1, but with the 0.98rc1 it was already broken. Only ~500 revisions in between
So, congratulations for helping to unveil a dozen years old bug

[bloodmyst]

Thanks and if I understood your question correctly I remember I did destroy the cube generator once before meeting the timelord, getting the sphere, prism, hourglass and there was NO ''hurry up and get to the black gate'' message from the timelord or any message... I realized this when It happened from playing the game when I was younger and restored an old savegame and followed the correct way to beat the game.. its also how I realized the whole magic in the generator bug...

So then the second part is yeah I guess you could just go straight there, walk right in and get it if you can avoid the traps now since I assume you guys fixed the magic bug there but I have no idea if it would break the game or not..

I got your email so I will look for the specific saves( I think those in question are on my other pc) see if I can find them (could take awhile lol) and send them to you..

[bloodmyst]

Ok nevermind last post. I just seen this bug description on sourceforge and double checked my save.. I had the enchanted hourglass and I had to activate the hourglass to get a message from the timelord saying the moons are almost aligned or whatever..( I just checked the savegame I had sent you a week ago or so..) Ill mess around with some of this stuff..see if I find anything

[Dominus]

Now wait a minute, I think we do not understand each other...

I'm saying you won't ever get the Time Lord to say "Hurry up, bla bla" after destroying the generator.

Are you saying that he *does* speak when you've activated the enchanted hourglass? In Exult?
(How does one activate it ? - can't remember)

[Bloodmyst]

Yeah he speaks... I just did it couple nights ago to see.. You have to double click the hourglass.

Sorry for late reply... Been going through serpent isle since I never played it all the way through before I start messin with the code..

I will resend that email I sent to you a few weeks back to that sourceforge email with the 2 saves..." retreat " is the one you want. Just get the cube and when you get out double click the hourglass. Err.. or double click it and then the avatar..its one or the other.

[Dominus]

thanks again.

After examining it, I think this is a bug in the original that we (accidently or by desgin) do correctly.
It makes no sense that this time lord message should automatically play once you destroy the cube generator, without any check whether you have spoken to the time lord or that you have the enchanted hourglass.
In Exult the flag gets set and when you doubleclick the hourglass that speech gets played. Sounds much more logical to me. Soooo, I think I'm not going to pursue this anymore

[Dominus]

ok, since the last post re-examined it and with Marzo's help Exult now behaves as the original does.
So even if you didn't yet speak to the time lord before or don't have the enchanted hourglass, breaking the generators will automatically play back the Time Lord's speech.
I'd say it's a bug in the original that it doesn't check for the obvious (met Time Lord, have enchanted hourglass), in SI such a plunder wouldn't have happened


Let me know how your SI playthrough goes - though I'm saying no news is good news in that regard