EXULT for POCKET PC !

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 2:31 am

That would be AWESOME, I think those machine would be the ultimate Exult Experience!
U7 can easily enter a Cheap CF/SD
Ppcs runs at descent speed
The resolution is juste perfect (320x240)
The Embedded visual tools are FREE

Please if someone want to start porting it, email me!!

Karlos · Post by **Karlos** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 4:32 am

Plus, many of those PocketPCs have Linux ports and can run X. I bet porting Exult to such a Linux system would not be difficult. I'm not sure how good performance would be, escpecially given the limited amount of RAM available, but it would help that the device is running the game at standard resolution with no scaling.

-Karl

Post by **nadir** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 4:40 am

RAM is the issue. You need space for the data files plus a fair bit for Exult (16MB ??). But I guess it is doable.

Post by **drcode** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 7:23 am

I bet that if we worked at it, we could get the RAM requirements down. Up to now, there hasn't been any reason to do that.

Could be a nice project for after the 1.00 release.

Post by **nadir** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:23 am

I also thought about mmaping the shapes files for platforms which support it (U*ix/MacOSX)

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 4:19 pm

I forgot to add, I'm lead of a little team making Adventure games for pocketPC (www.fade-team.com)
So I know very well what those machine are capable of :

-90% of the pocket PC available now have eiter 32mo of ram or 64
+ CF are quite cheap and everyone in the PPC community I know of have one
Storage and ram requirement are not a problem

- Nearly all Current pocket PC runs a 206 strongarm processor, it should be enough to run exult a 320x240...

-They all use Microsoft WinCE 3.0 wich is quite similar to actual windows verson expept there is no Direct X yet (There is a graphic library too called GAPI)

It would be absolutly fabulous to play the game on a brigh small screen with the Stylus as input (for this kind of game it may be even better than mouse)
The sad part is that my coders are currently overbooked with our latest projects (and also I am the only Ultima 7 fanatic here)

I will gladly help any of you who want to try making it real,
I can point to the Developpement tools needed for pocket PC (They are free and downloadable at MS PPC website), ALso I will have my coder ready to help if needed on some hard point:)

I really think it would be one of the most impressive move for Exult

Keep me informed at mcload@wanadoo.fr!

Alex

PS :Sorry for my lame english
PS 2 :Serpent Isle => Best game EVER !

Post by **drcode** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 7:44 am

Woa! That looks pretty impressive. Maybe you guys will be the next Sierra.

Post by **drcode** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:36 am

Some questions, now that I realize that Fade is writing commercial games: Would it make sense to use Exult for creating new games for the PocketPC? And is there a big market there for games? I've been under the impression that PocketPC's are pretty expensive, and were mostly bought for business use.

Now, targeting the GBA sounds like it would be more promising, but also more of a challenge in reducing memory usage.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:23 am

Atari ST!

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:42 am

hello again

ANd thanx for your appreciation of Fade:)
I definatly think using Exult to make commercial games would be a great thing, I would tottally support it ..
I think me and my team can come up with a great scenario/Tiles graphics
And it would be easy to split share with the Exult maker
The only trouble is That it deosnt sells very well right now, There are more and more PPC around so i think it won't be a trouble for long
After our next adventure game wich should be released within the Summer , We thought about starting a RPG (And as you may now, since U7 part 2 is my favorite game ever, i want a RPG with a lot of Story depth:)
hehe
ANyway Starting with a Free port of Ultima 7 on PPC would already be AMAZING !

I guess none of you have any pocket PC, but there is an emulator avaible with the Microsoft embedded tools and I can test everything needed

I can host the news of the PPC port on my website if you want and I know where the info can be posted to reach a maximum of people

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:48 am

FOr the GBA (as you may have seen we are working on a GBA version as well)
I think Ultima 7 engine is really not the ideal platfom, you are VERY limited Ram wise (32kb of RAM...+ 8mbRom Max) But the biggest trouble i see is the Input..
How do you want to play such an engine with A pad and 2 button ?
It may be ok for a Graphical adventure game like fade, but For U7, with tons of interaction everywhere, and small stuffs, it will be a hell to play that with a pad..
Still the PocketPC would be even more enjoyable than a PC version, Since The 320x240 screen is quite small (so Graphic quality will increase a lot, and it remove the need of using Scanline/smooth )And playing with a stylus would be the must for that type of game
In fact I can't see another oldies that can fit on a pocket PC as well as U7

Post by **artaxerxes** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:09 pm

according to the licence, you must make the source available of the games that link with exult or that uses part of the exult code.

Unless the team release Exult studio under LGPL, every program that integrate Exult Studio in any manner must release its source code if the program is distributed (which in likely would for a commercial program).

Consequently, you CAN make a commercial, but you MUST make the source available under the SAME licence Exult Studio/Exult is (whichever the one you use).

Artaxerxes

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:12 pm

yes, of course, whatever, i'm not yet planning ot make such a game:) it's just a future possibility (and releasing the source code shouldn't be a problem)

Post by **Colourless** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:22 pm

Artaxerxes just remember that GPL only covers the actual source code and executables themselves, it does not cover the actual game content, nor anything created by the tools. Also remember that you only need to distribute the source code to the people who are actually using the compiled binaries.

Post by **drcode** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 1:00 pm

Concurring with Colourless. If you were to make changes to Exult itself, the GPL would oblige you to distribute the new sources. But using ExultStudio to create a commercial game in no way requires you to release your script (Usecode source) or your artwork. And it's always been my not-so-secret hope that commercial games would be made with Exult (since then, I'd be able to play them on Linux:-)).

Another question: How is the Palm as a game platform? Seems like there are a lot more of those around in casual use, since they don't cost much.

And... If there were a reason to do so, we could reduce Exult's memory use by quite a bit. There are lots of things we do (such as not caching out chunks that are far away, and reading in all NPC's at the start), that could be changed to save memory.

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 1:32 pm

forget it about the palm device , It's true there are 15 millions Palm around the workd but 99 % of them are B/w device, and the COlors device are reeally too limited Hardware wise
: 8 mo or 16 mo storage/Ram for hte best devices , 160x160 screen...

(as you may have seen on the web page we are ALSO making a game on palm hehe)
PPC, are no doubt the easiest portable Platform to make it happen
(and of course when getting rid of all the smoothing/aesthetical parameters of the code (since they are not needed anymore on a PPC version) it should be a little smaller.
Also there are Zaurus (linux) PPC devices on the market too

If it's true your goal is to have a game made with the Exult engine, well i think it may happen!
anwyay here is my MSN messenger mail if you want to talk with me about that : mcioad@hotmail.com

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:45 pm

There are around 3Millions PPC worldwilde and it's Growing very fast (those devices are a little more expensive, but a lot more attractive than palm device)
"
And... If there were a reason to do so, we could reduce Exult's memory use by quite a bit. There are lots of things we do (such as not caching out chunks that are far away, and reading in all NPC's at the start), that could be changed to save memory."

=> I would advise the same for the Pocket PC version, since 16 mb is quite a lot of memory (even if would still working with 16, but most people will have to do a Huge cleaning of their PPC:)

A last thing, THere is already a port of PocketScumm (lucasart game interpreter) wich runs Perfectly on PPC, even the Midi musics are perfectly rendered, it encountered a great success

slow · Post by **slow** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 5:34 pm

pocketscumm... that anything to do with the monkey island series?

Post by **drcode** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 7:55 pm

Yes, it's a port of ScummVM.

slow · Post by **slow** » Tue Apr 09, 2002 9:37 pm

erm rather, can you give me some info on this? this is my all time favorite series (monkey island 1 and 2)

Telemachos · Post by **Telemachos** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:17 am

http://sourceforge.net/projects/scummvm

- Tele

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:46 am

Just to post something as well:
My dream would be that Spiderweb decides to make a game using Exult Studio

IMO Jeff Vogel of Spiderweb is the only one developing great RPG which are very in-depth.

Also, in contrary to what others of the team (Nadir

) think I'd like to see older Ultimas redone with Exult. Whenever (or if ever

) Jeff (our Jeff aka Dr.Code) integrates multiple maps into Exult I'd say that this wouldn't be too hard.
Think about it for U4 for example I only see the need to add a new barge (baloon), multiple maps to make the Dungeons as huge as they need to be (and ships full of Pirates that move on their own and have cannons). The same for U5. For U6 you would only need to be able to switch the leading NPC and have cary-on boats (which I also thought was kind of odd in U6 anyway).
I would love to play them in the Exult Engine. Much more then playing them on Dungeon Siege (though I will certainly like to take a look once they have modded it).

Post by **artaxerxes** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:37 am

About the GPL issue, I'm all with you Jeff and Ryan.

What I mean is that it's like GCC. The programs you make with it do NOT need to be GPLed. On the other hand if your program integrates partly or fully the GCC code, then your program needs to be GPLed.
If the game Mcload wants to make uses partly or fully the exult or exult-studio _code_ then, its code must be released too.

Mcload precised this is not a pb and I think that's great. Sure you can copyright the usecode and artwork. Same as U7 anyways.

Peace, brothers.

Artaxerxes

kiler · Post by **kiler** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:17 am

bit off-topic
I never knew Telemachos posts here often.

on-topic
Why not have pocket pc's with geforce 4's?

Post by **nadir** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:26 am

Do you have any idea how much power the GeForce GPU requires in Watts ?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:08 am

If anyone makes this for Pocket PC, don't forget the Jornada 720! It is a very powerful machine and it too uses the StrongArm SA1110 Intel CPU. The only difficulty would be changing around the interface a little for the 680x240 screen. However, if you made the interface faily slender, that shouldn't be a problem porting it to the 720. I only say this because the 720 is a Great, very fast little machine. I had an iPAQ 3835 but I traded it in for the Jornada 720 because of how much nicer it performs. However, its so dang hard to find software for it! I just thought that software makers shouldn't over look it...it would be the perfect PDA to run U7, etc! (Oh yeah, dont forget the keyboard

)

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:11 am

P.S.-I'd port it myself if I had more programming experience, but for now, I'm only a novice. But, if anyone is interested in porting to the 720, I'd love to help >>hopes someone is "listening"<<

Post by **drcode** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:50 am

I'd be quite willing to do a port to one of these handheld PC's IF

1. EA/Origin would pay me under a contract.
2. They supplied me with the hardware/software needed.

But since they seem to have no interest in anything we do, I don't see the above as very likely.

Post by **Colourless** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:58 am

I *could* in theory do the port to PPC as Microsoft's dev tools include an emulator. However the size of the tools is just far too big for me to actually download.

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:06 am

yes, the Tools are around 300mb to download
but at least they are free...
I'll try to talk to the guy who ported scumm to PocketPC, maybe he will be willing to help

Post by **drcode** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:42 am

A 300MB download?? I think that even the free Maya version is under 100Mb.

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 2:21 am

and so what ? It's only a DL.. Unless you have a prehistoric RTC line it shouldn't be such a deal:)

Btw, the maya "Free" Version.... ++>It's a shame, You can't even learn on it, there are "THIS IS A SAMPLE VERSION" message written everwhere, on the viewports, and in big letters on each render
whatever..

Post by **drcode** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 7:58 am

Prehistoric? I guess so. Telneting to my ISP and doing an 'ls -l', I see:

Sep 21 1995 .pnewsexpert

Post by **Colourless** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 8:07 am

Hmm, it would take me at least 25 hours to download it on my modem. That even assumes I'd be getting full rate the entire time... something that I wouldn't think is very likely.

As you can see, 300 MB is just a tad too much for me.

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:17 pm

Damn,I'm using broadband for such a longtime, and I live in a french small village...
I really thought More people would have broadband access nowaday.

If any of you email me His adress, I'll send a CD with all the tools needed on it!

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:00 pm

-Woa! That looks pretty impressive. Maybe you guys will be the next Sierra.
Or next ORIGIN!

Hmm. Go to there page.
They seem to only be maintaining Ultima Online now.
Err.

www.origin.ea.com

Home of ONLY Ultima Online.
Geez.

Post by **drcode** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:44 pm

Kind of sad. Both Sierra and Origin are empty shells of what they used to be, when they were my favorite (along with LucasArts) game companies.

Post by **Darke** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:26 pm

And now New World Computing has just apparently had 2/3rds of their workforce cut... are there any of the 'old' games companies around in a recognisable form anymore? The only one I can think of (other then NWC) is SSG, what was originally the Australian arm of SSI, and is still apparently an independant company.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:46 pm

How 'old' do you want to go? id software is up there

Post by **Dominus** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:52 pm

id Software only counts half for me. They never did anythingelse than 3d-Shooters. A good games company does more genres IMHO.
But yes they've been around for quite some time but not nearly as long as Sierra/Origin.

As for origi.ea.com : really sad. Especially with that Todd McFarlane UO cover. Well he is a great artist but what he and EA did out of UO is far waorse than what LB did of it.

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:38 am

I may, say "Hopefully" NWC is dying...
How do you want them to live longer after playing to Might and magic 9 ?
It's one of the worst RPG i played (maybe they can only keep the Heroes Team)
SIr tech ,however, Deserved to live... WIzardry 8 was awesome

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:06 am

I just wanted to add that Todd McFarlane didn't do anything to UO. He has never played an Ultima in his life, he doesn't really know anything about UO, he just signed a contract to draw some creatures for the game - I don't think he can be blamed for that.

EA, however... tsk tsk tsk. Well, I think we all know about them.

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:07 am

Is Might&magic 9 as bad as 7&8 (too easy puzzles and just heaps of monsters to fight to prolong the gameplay)?

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:41 am

Hmm...
I need a copy of UO to play on the Sosarian Dawn shard.

Has anyone ever thought about putting that thing where if you put something on, it shows it on your player character on screen into the Ultimas? And item color changing. A GM bar? What's the best GM bar out, by the way?

Take these into consideration, you techies out there.

Mcload · Post by **Mcload** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:34 am

The problem with M&M 9, is the gameplay , it is absolut crap
It's even simplier than Diablo !
(you don't have a mouscursor, it's just a Festclick in the general direction of clueless monsters)
THe Level design is horrible,, Thes story is really Lame
MM7 and 8 were good game compared to this crap