Killing, Stealing

[azamora]

ok i just got exult and it seems that stealing from NPC shopkeepers and killing guards wont get the guards alerted or get you in jail (as i remember it was when I first played u7 back in 95)
am i missing something here?
i got .94 alpha version


any help would be appreciated.

[Dominus]

hm, looking at the FAQ, I found section 5.4.
"he who can read clearly has an edge" .-)

[Tim]

I get yelled at when I steal things.

Never tried going on a killing spree though.

The alpha .94 isn't the latest version also. Download the Beta one.

[Friedel]

I tried to kill an npc just now (with the beta) and the guards came and attacked me.

As far as i remember, that is the behaviour of the original Ultima 7 game. However i am not sure what happens to your karma and if Ultima 7 keeps an account of your virtue.

Ultima 6 used to have a karma counter and if you did steal and kill too much, you weren't deemed worthy to enter the shrine in the endgame. This could be "corrected" by meditation.

[drcode]

I don't believe the original U7 keeps track of karma. You can steal as much as you want if you don't get caught by anyone.

[Lukon]

if you cant help yourself stealing, it usually helps to move whatever you are taking out of the room, and then into our pack.

if there is someone around, they usually call the guards after 4 or 5 objects pilfered.

i wonder is casting sleep of them stops them calling the guards??

[drcode]

Note that it depends on the objects. There's an 'okay to take' flag, and it's generally NOT set for containers and the things in them, but set for most other things (except food served in inns).

[Mimu]

What's this I hear about the endgame changing if you steal too much?

It's not true then. :\

[sprodfish]

the guards never throw you in jail or even ask you if "willt thou come quietly?"
and in trinsic at the start, i remember iolo and spark getting really pissed off when i stole stuff and even leaving if i stole too much
"is that virtuous??"
"Avatar?!?"
this doesn't happen with exult

[Max aka Moscow Dragon]

No karma in U7s.

In U7BG, to avoid angering guards, put things to _Iolo_'s backpack. Or other companion's. This is OK even at the sight of the owner.
Never:
- just move things.
- eat the food off the table.
- put "non-your" things in your backpack.

In U7SI you can do all of this, the trigger is - somebody seeing you stealing.

[Soul Harvester]

For reference, here is how it is in the *original* game:

- Guards will come only if an NPC calls them, due to an attack you made or if they see you stealing.

- Once guards are summoned, however, more can come at will, regardless of whether or not another npc calls them, if you attack the guards that were summoned. This is why killing a single npc can lead to 50 guards chasing you.

- Most objects can be stolen by dragging them DIRECTLY onto your character, as no one will notice, not even companions. However if drag them into your pack or somewhere else, people can notice and guards can be called.

- Your companions can eventually get perturbed and will leave the party, but up until that point will not call the guards on you.

- You can take anything from a companions house. I'm not sure if you have to let them join first, but for instance, all the belongings in iolo's, sparks, and sentri's house are up for grabs.

- The guards will always (regardless of where you are) kill you rather then be bribed if you do not get the password from Finnigan in Trinsic. Thus, if you use the teleport cheat to leave the town rather then finish the investigation and die, no matter what it will force you to load your previous save (does this automatically anyways).

- If an npc cannot see you but is still on screen, it will not call the guards, something as simple as closing a door will protect you.

- There is no karma counter in u7 or anything else that keeps track of who you've killed or what you've stolen, other then event flags.

[Max aka Moscow Dragon]

A bit wrong.

"Noticing" does not work in U7BG. Only in SI.
In BG, the guards are summoned by moving stuff even without any NPC near. And NOT summoned by taking stuff to the _companion's_ backpack even in front of the NPC.

[Petteri]

So, to what conclusion have we come? Is it OK to steal or not?

[Max aka Moscow Dragon]

Hmmm.... maybe passing BG and SI _without any stealing_ can be a great experience.

In SI, this is not so complex. Go to Furnace and fight trolls - there are gems in them.

[Stephan]

Eh? I never stole in BG or SI. That, IMHO, was not the way those games were supposed to be played.

[SB-X]

You are the Avatar, after all...

[Max aka Moscow Dragon]

My friend and I first played U7BG in late 92, when we did not know what is Avatar and or what is Ultima Virtues since we did not play the previous Ultimas.

I remember trying to apply the mallet from the Shrine of Justice different ways (maybe the shrine is for something? not just an adornment) and do not understanding what is Ankh.

So, we considered the game to be designed for serial cleptomania

We also joined Fellowship and wore a medallion we considered the game plot to be designed for this. We also considered the Red Face a Good Guy first time - till the Alagner's notebook.

After all, we were stuck due to Hook's key disappeared from the backpack during sleeping.

We also noticed Iolo to eat much more than others

The hardest moment for us was the Penumbra's plaque.

[Kurt]

you thought the guardian was a good guy? Didn't you watch the intro?

nobody with a laugh like that can be a good guy. Unless they make a game called: Barry White : Superhero extraordanaire

[Max aka Moscow Dragon]

He gave advices, and not so bad ones in the beginning.

So we considered him to be a good guy. As about the intro - we considered him to be a Good God, under whose direction we must win the Evil Ones.

[Soul Reaver]

Save us! We've got Felloship recruiters in our midst!

Guards! Guards! Arrest this man!!!

[DarkFistDragon]

An Bal Sil Fer! Klep Lem! Klep Lem!