Multiple Maps

[Morg]

so yeah, I've been playing with Exult studio off and on for a while now. Well one of the things is that I kept a back up version of the map. By keeping a back up I don't have to be too afraid of screwing the map up too much.

Well that got me thinking, I now have 2 U7 maps saved on my computer, U7Map & U7Map1. I'm playing on U7Map, I save the game, exit, rename U7Map to U7map2, and rename U7Map 1 to U7map.

Now when I reload the game there I am, at the same relitive point on the second map.

I guess it's a pretty low tech solution, and maybe I'm just insane for trying to make U7 bigger (and therefore more difficult) but yeah, has anyone ever felt the need to have multiple maps in U7

oh well it's been a while since i've posted here, so I felt the urge to do so now.

[SB-X]

> has anyone ever felt the need to have multiple maps in U7

Yes we have. I think there's even a feature request for it. (but I might be wrong, feel free to make one if there isn't)

[drcode]

Yes, it's something we're thinking about for Exult 2.0. You could make some monstrously huge games with this feature, although I wonder if anyone will be able to generate that much content.

[Dominus]

At least I'd like an add-on for BG which takes you to another dimension inwhich you have to walk through a huge dungeon to get the one goodie and then you have to walk back

Something huge and meaningless....

[Achile dragon]

Or maybe the cave with the unicorn. There surely something to do with that cave or even destard

[GPA_Nemesis]

Lot that could be done...even going so far as to make an 'alternate britannia'...perhaps one that was already ravaged by the Guardian. With enough work, you could alter all the converstations and plots on this second map.

Perhaps in this Britannia, the Guardian managed to corrupt the Avatar...and by the same token, there is a 'Dark Avatar' running around. Perhaps even plot threads where the player has to stop the Dark Avatar from getting to our Brittania and linking up with Batlan.

Since all this deals with otherworldly stuff, you could bridge the two directly though the Forge of Virtue...perhaps the Dark Core could act as a conduit.

With enough effort, this other Britannia could really come to life. LB murdered, the Dark Avatar sitting on the throne of Britain...perhaps opposed by the noble Lord Blackthorne, returned from exile, and once more in possesion of his sanity. This would, in a roundabout way, give Ultima players a chance to redeem Blackthorne...even if it's not 'our' Blackthorne.

The oppression in this alternate reality could generate the same atmosphere as Ultima V did. As the player comes to grips with just how the Avatar has fallen...which of his companions were corrupted with him (her). Which died opposing this new Lord of Darkness. Which are still out there, hiding in exile.

The maps would be relitivly the same...but with subtle changes. Perhaps even have a functioning Black Gate in this reality...the entry point of the Guardian. It would give the Avatar a REAL good picture of what would happen if they were to fail. And give more weight to Ultima VIII, as the Avatar's eventual fall.

But I'm a sucker for alternate reality stories...if done WELL, and not just a gimmick. Ever read the Justice League Graphic Novel Earth 2? It's not just an evil version of Batman, there is a slight change to history, so it makes SENSE he's evil...same for the rest. I'd love to implement this...change a few small, random things in this Britannia's history that opens the door to this Avatar's corruption...

So...if this feature is implemented, and I managed to beat BG and SI...maybe I'll work on this. Or, maybe I'll just hope a mod team will do it for me. Still, I'd love to work on the storyline...

Well, I can dream...
-Brian (Playful Dragon)

[Crysta the Elf]

of course a more practical application for such a feature would be to make a working underworld map

multiple floor dungeons in BG... move all teh caves and such off the SI map and on to a seperate one and add in true boat travel... it would rock

[Morg]

One of the things that I thought would be cool and easy to impliment (ohhh how incredibly wrong I was) would be to use the SI map with BG, basically create the serpent pillars . . . unfortunetly SI is very different than BG so it didn't work, but the ability to wander between britania and the serpent isle would be niffty

[painful]

Honestly I'd be quite happy to start a mod team for an alternate reality, but it seems that whenever someone mentions it they either disappear or back out so its kind of a hopeless effort to try to get one started on my own. I do a lot of map editing with Exult Studio to give it a good thorough testing so that parts pretty much gonna be covered, its just the conversation editing, usecode editing, etc that i'd need to get a few people to help out on. Now graphics I can do. But a decent sized mod team would need atleast 3 people who can handle graphics so there's always someone who can do em.. 2 at minimum.

[GPA_Nemesis]

I'd be interested, but it would have to be delayed a bit. See, I know Ultima history inside and out, but due to timing and sound issues, I have never played far into either U7. So, while I may have a dozen ideas in my head, and know what I would want to do in the AR, I'd like to have played through both U7s to have the COMPLETE knowledge.

To that effect, I'll be starting U7-BG as of the next Exult release. After I beat BG and SI, and if Exult adds multi-map support, I'd love to work on a mod team for a 'Dark Brittania' mod for BG. Let's give the Avatar something to use that flashy sword from Forge on.

As for my role...the conversations and story would be where I'd want to do the most good, so I think my interests would compliment yours well...

I'll let you know. Who knows? Maybe a month or so down the line we can round up a team and do this. Might not be as legendary as the Exult team, but who else is?
-Brian (Playful Dragon)

[painful]

Sounds like a plan to me. One thing I've always been interested in doing was letting the avatar be evil just to give the player a chance to be devious and dark once in a while. But that's just a side project. One part of this 'alternate reality' idea thats good is the fact that we dont have to settle for just one AR. We can let the avatar travel between different versions to solve his quest. Or if we have to settle on a single map remake first, before we can do multiple map switching, then we can have several 'episodes' where he has to travel through altered moongates trying to find clues as to why britannia has been shattered and fragmented into these different dimensions.. One thing I would like to do is explore the shard ideas that UO had and actually do them right. Let the avatar explore all the lands in the shards and experience the different dimensions within them. So many possibilities. Quite endless. One game where the avatar is in a dark britannia. One where he's in a futuristic britannia. One where he's in a destroyed britannia where next to nothing exists and is worse then the dark britannia. Completely new worlds are possible too. Imagine doing a sequal to Ultima 8: Pagan in exult where you can play on a dif world, or britannia, whichever.. but it takes place after you've become a god. And there could be an ultima 9 retelling in exult with a real story this time and better play value. We could do that one like SI does. Start the avatar out in a spot on the map that you can only get to by teleport cheat, that looks like earth and such. Then go to the moongate and teleport to britannia. Would be quite interesting. And would be a feasible method until we can do map switching.

If I do start a mod team, those would be the main 'goals' for it. Making several different adventures through exult as extra games/stories for ultima. Of course the mod team would choose which to do at what time and such. But it would be nice to do as many as possible someday.

[SB-X]

Don't forget the world where the principles of truth, love, and courage have been replaced by wine, women, and song - leading to the eight virtues of drunkenness, sensuality, harmony, lust, laziness, dance, indulgence, and happiness. (thanks Mandrake) ... or even some anti-virtue story like U7SI was supposed to have originally. (contrast with the extreme-application-of-virtue in U5) Though I'm not sure how you would explain that one realistically with just small changes in Britannian history.

Actually with a mod (and this is one of the reasons to do it) you don't need all new graphics. You are doing it in the same world basically, you just need new map areas and NPCs.

[painful]

New graphics for mods are meant to just enhances areas that the original graphics dont. Like a new type of wall to use for a castle so it looks completely different then surrounding areas.

[GPA_Nemesis]

Well, for the Dark Brittania theme, I was thinking of tying it into BG directly, if Exult adds multi-map support. Let the Avatar get into the altered world through the Dark Core...then, after a short while, the barriers break down and multiple gates between the two worlds appear.

As for the Dark Avatar, we could use a simple premise...what if the Avatar did not destroy the Skull of Mondain in U4, but instead found another way to complete the quest of the Avatar? Perhaps instead finding and destroying the three large shards of Mondain's Crystal.

In this reality, U5 would never have happened, since there were no shards for the Shadowlords to spring from. Blackthorne would remain noble. Instead, the karmic balance was maintained by the poisoning of the Avatar's mind from the Skull he/she kept.

U6 would have happened normally, though perhaps this Avatar would have been a bit more...excessive...in dealing with the Gargoyles (perhaps even using Armageddon from the Wisps?).

Enter U7...the Guardian hits this Britannia before ours, and the Avatar, now quite evil and insane decides not to stop Batlin, but instead to slaughter him, and take his place...willingly allying with the Guardian. From there, that Britannia goes to heck in a handbasket.

Not sure how easily all of this could be implemented into U7 with multi-map support...but it sounds feasable. And in that regard, we're not making an entirely new maps...rather we're just playing around with and corrupting the original U7 map.

How does it sound?
-Brian (Playful Dragon)

[Crysta the Elf]

would Skara Brae be living still?

[GPA_Nemesis]

That's a good question. But let's not give too much away in this forum. Basically, once I've played through BG and SI, I'll feel comfortable being part of a MOD team. At that point, once we assemble a team, the team members can hammer out story and plot points in private.

Have to have SOME surprises to spring on the Ultima vets, no?
-Brian (Playful Dragon)

[drcode]

This all sounds pretty cool. Note that there's going to be a bit of work before this will be useable:

1. Add support for multiple maps in the engine.
2. Modify the savegame formats.
3. Put support in ExultStudio for creating new maps.

[Warder]

I'm a sucker for alternate realities too. There was a very cool scenario in Legacy when we had to deal with an alternate timeline, Sosaria around 70 years after Ultima I - but a Sosaria where Mondain had been killed before his rise to power. Good times.

[GPA_Nemesis]

Well, the idea behind 'Dark Britannia' as it were is that it would use a copy of the original BG map. Nothing new as far as dimension sizes and the like...it'd be a second copy of the main map.

As a result, a LOT of the work could be done BEFORE Exult supports it. Basically, the mod team could have the Dark Map all but completed and waiting for Exult 2.0.

The questions would simply lie in plot, and what modifications we make to the new map. That...and how we want to tie it into BG. (One option would be to remove the final battle from the main map...allow the avatar to destroy the gate but not trigger the ending, forcing him to go to Dark Brittania and do the same there.

Or, whether this (like Forge) would all be optional for those who want to explore, and want a greater challenge. If so, a character who completes all these new quests would be able to easily whomp on the last part of BG proper.

But these would all be questions for a future mod team. I'll have to beat BG and SI before I can offer opinions one way or the other.
-Brian (Playful Dragon)

[Daemongar]

WOW - this is really neat - You could make above ground all one map, maybe SI and U7 on the same aboveground where the chunks are all contiguous - not teleporting around, but the whole U7 map is as it should be when extracted. Who knows, leave Moonshade via Furnace, end up in Moonglow if you take the wrong turn...

I know I'm not making sense, but this is really something whose time will someday (I hope) come. Keep working!

[SB-X]

I like the idea of corrupting the U7 map in more ways than one.

Isn't it possible that if the historical events in past Britannia or Sosaria didn't occur, some of the lands that are gone in later times are still there? It is well known that earthquakes in Britannia are tied to major events in the timeline.

[Vex Blackheart]

I'm really interested in this. If people are looking for people to recruit for teams...

My strong points would be:

*Anything story related. Plot, dialogue, character development. (I want to be a novelist)

*World building. One of the things I did originally with U7 1 and 2 was to turn on the Hack mover and take over a town. I also play with RPG maker and have made some nice things. Here are some screenshots.
http://mirrorofchaos.tripod.com/Atonia.jpg
http://mirrorofchaos.tripod.com/Mini1.jpg
(I even drew some of the sprites used)

*Coding. I have 2/3rds of a bachelors degree in computer science that I pretty sure I'm not ever going to finish. But I did want to be a programmer for a while and I code lil rpg games every now and then to stay fresh.

This is probably going to not be ever finished, but it will be fun to make an attempt.

Vex

[painful]

There's no saying we can't start a mod team right now and develop a mod thats not based on multiple maps. It would actually do the team good to get a feel of working together and of the engine on a singular map and story, before getting deep into multiple maps.

[Vexblackheart]

Lol, I just read over my post.

"This is probably going to not be ever finished..."

And I want to be a novelist! I guess that’s what happens when I get too excited.